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Brexit referendum and negotiations 2016-19

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    Jesus. What a cesspool England has become.
    Tis but a scratch.

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      Originally posted by Wallyman View Post

      It was a pic of Angela Merkel with her right arm raised and it had a caption that said "We didnt win two world wars to be pushed around by a kraut."
      They were right about the first part mind.

      Since Johnson has come to power the rethoric has noticeably spiraled. Even in London I'm bombarded by ads telling me to prepare. It's all "prepare for Brexit" but when you ask "how" no one knows.

      There is also a very strange atmosphere. It's hard to describe, an almost intangible frisson of ... fear / volatility / danger. As we approach the latter half of October, I expect this to ramp up on the back of even more outlandish gaslighting by Johnson and Cummings.

      I never thought I'd live to see this bat **** craziness.
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        Originally posted by Wallyman View Post

        It was a pic of Angela Merkel with her right arm raised and it had a caption that said "We didnt win two world wars to be pushed around by a kraut."
        Commemorate Nevin Spence here -
        http://www.mycharity.ie/event/munste..._nevin_spence/

        Comment


          Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post

          They were right about the first part mind.

          Since Johnson has come to power the rethoric has noticeably spiraled. Even in London I'm bombarded by ads telling me to prepare. It's all "prepare for Brexit" but when you ask "how" no one knows.

          There is also a very strange atmosphere. It's hard to describe, an almost intangible frisson of ... fear / volatility / danger. As we approach the latter half of October, I expect this to ramp up on the back of even more outlandish gaslighting by Johnson and Cummings.

          I never thought I'd live to see this bat **** craziness.
          Sounds grim. If it's like that in London imagine what it must feel like to be a Polish plumber in Margate.

          Comment


            As long as Corbyn stays as Labour leader, the Conservatives will win.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Viigand View Post
              As long as Corbyn stays as Labour leader, the Conservatives will win.
              Labours position is actually the most sane, believe it or not - agree a new deal, and put that deal to the country in a "this deal or remain" binary choice. The Tories are happy to burn the place to the ground via a no deal, and the Lib Dems have a straight up "revoke A50" stance, both of which are incredible positions to take.

              The problem with Labour is no one has a clue what they actually stand for. A recent poll shows this - "Labour's Brexit policy is a mystery to me" Agree: 66% Disagree: 18%.

              Part of me thinks that the FPTP system drives this insane black and white politics - there is no scope for nuance in the British system . Although I strongly disagree it the 2016 referendum result, on a PR basis I could *just about* live with a Norway Plus option. I'd guess a lot of people who voted leave could just about live with it as well. Instead, we have two absolute polar opposites being touted as the only viable outcomes.
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                Originally posted by Viigand View Post
                As long as Corbyn stays as Labour leader, the Conservatives will win.
                Current seat projections make a Lib/Lab coalition the most likely electoral outcome.
                "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post

                  Current seat projections make a Lib/Lab coalition the most likely electoral outcome.
                  But is UK nowadays a country where a coalition can tule?

                  No need to be a specialist in politics to follow BJ's strategy: His ultimate target is to be the new Winston Churchill. He is only interested in the job. No matter if this must cause a disaster in UK, and more so in Ireland (Do I have to remind you who sent the Auxiliaries to Croke Park on the 21 November 1920?..).

                  A part of the british opinion who voted leave sees now that all this heads the country for disaster. But the last extremists, those who still consider Germany as the ultimate enemy, those who are children of the emigration but refuse to allow this right to others (and there are even ministers in this case!), those who consider that people with a different opinion are simply traitors refuse to do so. And this core is the target of BJ and his clique to get the power back after elections.
                  I felt sincerely sad after the result of the referendum. Sad for people I meet all year long here as they come to me with their pets before returning to UK, sad for the british youth. But after all, the country, or at least a big part of it refuses to see where the real problem is, and if this leads to a scottish independency and an irish REunification, let them go for it.
                  First problem, a part of the Tories think this way is the best way to keep their sits, and backing BJ is only a question of political survival.
                  Second problem, and not the smallest: How can a country like UK be ruled by an adviser who did not even need to stay in the shadow, I mean Dominic Cummings? All shows that this man is some kind of grey eminence and his role in this sad affair is huge. Johnson always played with the no-deal to get back the Brexit Party voters in case of general elections, and because he is trapped by the Benn Act,avoiding an extension he cannot theoreticaly (because in such a mess I am not convinced that any silly sudden revival can be ruled out), the only exit door for him is to blame EU and to explain that the blocking comes from abroad.
                  But that would NEVER be the fault of the EU. EU has enough defaults to get this in addition.

                  That's why I agree with Fitzy: The position "let's get a deal and let's go to a new referendum deal or remain" that is (ok, unclearly) defended by the Labour is imho the only right and repsponsible way. BUt that's naturally what BJ and his buch of wheeler-dealers want to avoid.
                  Last edited by JN.Allezdax.com; 9th-October-2019, 13:44.
                  The Scots (originally Irish, but by now Scotch) were at this time inhabiting Ireland, having driven the Irish (Picts) out of Scotland; while the Picts (originally Scots) were now Irish (living in brackets) and vice versa. It is essential to keep these distinctions clearly in mind (and verce visa).

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post

                    Current seat projections make a Lib/Lab coalition the most likely electoral outcome.
                    Interesting that you put the Lib part first!!! Will Jeremy serve in cabinet with Chuka?

                    Comment


                      100 One Nation Tory MPs say there is no cucumstances under which they will stand on a 'No deal Brexit' election manifesto.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post

                        Current seat projections make a Lib/Lab coalition the most likely electoral outcome.
                        Doubt that the Lib Dems would vote for Corbyn as PM though. They should pick up a decent amount of centrist Tory voters, if they want to play the long game, surely they couldn’t back the hard left.

                        Comment


                          You'd almost feel sorry for Varadkar today, having to travel to the UK to be part of Johnson's farce. He'll have to put up with a full day of a moron muttering on about compromise and non-existent technological solutions, knowing full well nothing will come of it.
                          "It’s not the team you support, it’s the club you should support. The team on the pitch will ebb and flow because that’s the nature of sport. No team has ever been successful decade on decade. The club has the history and that’s the passion you should have."

                          Comment


                            Go to the homepage of one of the right wing UK newspapers (there are a few!) and there is currently a poll asking:

                            "Is Leo Varadkar to blame for blocking Brexit?".

                            Astonishingly, 86% of respondents say he is.


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                              Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post
                              Go to the homepage of one of the right wing UK newspapers (there are a few!) and there is currently a poll asking:

                              "Is Leo Varadkar to blame for blocking Brexit?".

                              Astonishingly, 86% of respondents say he is.

                              If that's the Mail (and we understand if you won't admit you read it in a moment of weakness)..............the only surprise is the number of respondents blaming Varadkar isn't 100%.
                              The Express is as bad.

                              Comment


                                So Leo and Boris issue a statement that they see a pathway to agreement.
                                So, let's get real here. (1) There's no possibility of Leo agreeing to any sort of hard border. (2) Unlikely Boris is looking at Corbyn's continued custom Union. So it can only mean NI in the custom's Union. Are the ERG ready for that now they see no Brexit is likely? 'Cos if means Arlene under the bus. Possibly a slight twist - the customs union can only end when Nationalists and Unionists agree on that. Ipso fatso SF have a veto.
                                Theresa May for slow learners.
                                Last edited by tippete7trees; 10th-October-2019, 16:58.

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