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Brexit referendum and negotiations 2016-19

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    From The Guardian online...

    "There are reports that Irish politician Phil Hogan, Ireland’s European commission nominee, is to be confirmed as the EU’s chief trade negotiator.

    The Irish politician has been critical of Boris Johnson and warned last month of the ramifications of a no-deal Brexit on the relationship between the UK and EU states.

    “If the UK fails to prevent a crash-out Brexit they should be under no illusion regarding the foul atmosphere they will create with their EU partners and the serious consequences this will have for negotiating any future trade agreement,” he said according to the Irish Times.
    "

    https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/sta...-politics-live

    Sounds like a declaration of war against BoJo and his bunch of sinister wheeler-dealers......
    The Scots (originally Irish, but by now Scotch) were at this time inhabiting Ireland, having driven the Irish (Picts) out of Scotland; while the Picts (originally Scots) were now Irish (living in brackets) and vice versa. It is essential to keep these distinctions clearly in mind (and verce visa).

    Comment


      Originally posted by JN.Allezdax.com View Post
      From The Guardian online...

      "There are reports that Irish politician Phil Hogan, Ireland’s European commission nominee, is to be confirmed as the EU’s chief trade negotiator.

      The Irish politician has been critical of Boris Johnson and warned last month of the ramifications of a no-deal Brexit on the relationship between the UK and EU states.

      “If the UK fails to prevent a crash-out Brexit they should be under no illusion regarding the foul atmosphere they will create with their EU partners and the serious consequences this will have for negotiating any future trade agreement,” he said according to the Irish Times.
      "

      https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/sta...-politics-live

      Sounds like a declaration of war against BoJo and his bunch of sinister wheeler-dealers......
      If Hogan does get Trade it will be on the back of the trade element of the Agriculture portfolio. This is more a fringe benefit plus reminding U.K. it is a 3rd country.

      Comment


        Originally posted by AwayFromHome View Post

        Not true. We have to plan ahead to minimize the pain. That does involve assessing developments day by day. But I agree with you that the average person doesn't really need minute by minute reporting.

        It’s not on a need to know basis though, surely? Our nearest neighbour is going through a constitutional car crash that will have a huge impact on Ireland. I think that’s sufficiently interesting to warrant the coverage.

        Ultimately there’s never enough really essential news to keep the 24 hour news cycle sated, and all of this stuff is vital one day and forgotten the next. That’s taken as read.

        And admittedly I’m a political anorak who enjoys the minutiae.

        But if people are bored they can switch off.
        "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

        "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


        "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

        Comment


          Is Doris going to go for May's NI only backstop? They will be wailing and flailing and gernashing of Arlene and Sammy if he does. But normal people up there will be glad. One small step for the DUPEs, one giant step for the Shinners.

          Comment


            Originally posted by tippete7trees View Post
            Is Doris going to go for May's NI only backstop? They will be wailing and flailing and gernashing of Arlene and Sammy if he does. But normal people up there will be glad. One small step for the DUPEs, one giant step for the Shinners.
            The irony might be that in losing so many Tory MPs, he now has no functional use for the DUP. His GE strategy will probably focus on a pact with the Brexit Party instead.

            Can he get a NI only backstop through Parliament though? The LDs will down it, as they're clear about being full on remain. SNP I suspect will go the same way, though their long game is clearly independence so who knows what the tactical approach will be.

            DUP will clearly vote against with much protestation. Labour, I think, will vote against as it won't meet the full conditions of the 6 test laid out by Starmer, which basically require full UK membership of the CM.

            Which leads him needing the Tory rebels, who may come back into the fold for a softened deal.

            Then you have the great imponderable....Will the likes of Rees Mogg and Francois die on a hill for the indivisible Union and a No Deal Brexit?

            "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

            "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


            "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

            Comment


              Originally posted by lawrence View Post



              Completely disproportionate, its not talking about the rupturing of the GFA, or the installation of border infrastructure and all that comes with it, its the millionth article that says these things might happen. We don’t need coverage that a vote will take place later, we need the results and implications when that vote is returned. If sterling as dropped that doesn’t effect the majority of people on this island, why not report on the value of the Euro, the ****ing currency we use.

              The media here is leaving the Beef strikes on the small pages, something that effects Irish people just as much as Brexit.

              How many other issues are on the back burner media wise because the media’s focus is on something We have no control over. Homelessness heading into another winter, infrastructure projects, children’s hospital, national broadband plan, cervical check debacle. All non issues as long as BOJO is throwing out the sound bites.


              With brexit We just have to take the medicine we are given whenever it is given if we like it or not.

              To be honest, I think political processes are important and too often ignored by the public. "What will this mean for you" is an important level of reporting, but knowing how that happens has its own value. I understand the criticism of reporters in a political bubble, but I sometimes feel that the public is equally to blame for allowing themselves to be cut off from the process.

              A drop in sterling (particularly against the Euro) does have an effect for people.

              I agree that other issues also need full scrutiny, but Brexit is the most important international policy event for Ireland since the 2008 crunch and the Troika.

              Admitting my personal bias, though, I generally think that people don't know enough about current affairs full stop. If people don't have a view on the impact of Bolsonaro's election on the preservation of the Amazon, for instance, I'd consider them essentially detached from reality.

              Unfortunately, about 95% of the population are in that bracket.

              "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

              "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


              "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

              Comment


                Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post

                The irony might be that in losing so many Tory MPs, he now has no functional use for the DUP. His GE strategy will probably focus on a pact with the Brexit Party instead.

                Can he get a NI only backstop through Parliament though? The LDs will down it, as they're clear about being full on remain. SNP I suspect will go the same way, though their long game is clearly independence so who knows what the tactical approach will be.

                DUP will clearly vote against with much protestation. Labour, I think, will vote against as it won't meet the full conditions of the 6 test laid out by Starmer, which basically require full UK membership of the CM.

                Which leads him needing the Tory rebels, who may come back into the fold for a softened deal.

                Then you have the great imponderable....Will the likes of Rees Mogg and Francois die on a hill for the indivisible Union and a No Deal Brexit?
                We live in both interesting and entertaining times.

                Comment


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                  Comment


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                    Now yiz know what Doris had in mind when he was designing that bus.

                    Comment


                      The quote from the speaker of the house of commons last night "I don't give a fly flamingo" will stick in my mind for ever.
                      Excellence is hard to keep quite - Sherrie Coale

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post


                        It’s not on a need to know basis though, surely? Our nearest neighbour is going through a constitutional car crash that will have a huge impact on Ireland. I think that’s sufficiently interesting to warrant the coverage.

                        Ultimately there’s never enough really essential news to keep the 24 hour news cycle sated, and all of this stuff is vital one day and forgotten the next. That’s taken as read.

                        And admittedly I’m a political anorak who enjoys the minutiae.

                        But if people are bored they can switch off.
                        No, absolutely it is not on a need to know basis.

                        You are an anorak. I have a professional obligation to read and assess what is happening (in addition to being an anorak!). Even with a high level of professional interest I can only influence (either directly or through indirect leverage) a tiny amount of things that are happening and I can only realistically plan for a small portion of the potential implications of all ongoing developments (including as you mention afterwards Bolsonaro or the composition of the new European Commission or the impact of China's Belt and Road Initiative, or India's treatment of Kashmir, or rising xenophobia in South Africa, or the impact of the mineral rush in central Africa etc etc etc).

                        I think, being pedantic, that the specific word that Lawrence used of 'disproportionate' is not accurate but I'd agree with the general idea that reporting is overblown and has become a distraction from other issues that perhaps individuals can do more to affect, like homlessness, the beef protests or climate change.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by AwayFromHome View Post

                          No, absolutely it is not on a need to know basis.

                          You are an anorak. I have a professional obligation to read and assess what is happening (in addition to being an anorak!). Even with a high level of professional interest I can only influence (either directly or through indirect leverage) a tiny amount of things that are happening and I can only realistically plan for a small portion of the potential implications of all ongoing developments (including as you mention afterwards Bolsonaro or the composition of the new European Commission or the impact of China's Belt and Road Initiative, or India's treatment of Kashmir, or rising xenophobia in South Africa, or the impact of the mineral rush in central Africa etc etc etc).

                          I think, being pedantic, that the specific word that Lawrence used of 'disproportionate' is not accurate but I'd agree with the general idea that reporting is overblown and has become a distraction from other issues that perhaps individuals can do more to affect, like homlessness, the beef protests or climate change.
                          Another fine example of how the Irish media are becoming over interested in things outside Ireland that have little
                          if anything to do with us. TV 3 news has a lead story on the 8pm news of Trump firing someone in his staff. It’s ahead of a report on Vaccines and how the Government is going to tackle the mis-information on them.

                          Presumably I missed the Brexit stuff, where nothing of consequence was repeatedly reported on.

                          Comment


                            I see Labour have now come out and say they will campaign on a mandate of having a second referendum with a legitimate leave and remain option on the ballot paper. It'll be interesting to see if that is enough to keep northern leave voters and southern remain voters on board.
                            ​​​​​​
                            Also interesting polling released yesterday (prior to Labour pivot)

                            Con 30% (-14)
                            Lab 29% (-12)
                            LD 17% (+9)
                            BXP 13% (+13)
                            Grn 4% (+2)
                            SNP 3% (-)

                            Con 285 (-32) Lab 261 (-1) SNP 50 (+15) LD 29 (+17) BXP 1 (+1) Oth 24 (-)

                            Lab/LD/SNP govt?
                            Please support Milford Hospice. Click here to donate.

                            Comment


                              I don't understand why there is so little talk of a One Nation unionist party being formed. Between the Scots Tories, UUP and English Tory rebels they should reasonably expect to be competitive in 60-80 seats and would hold the balance of power.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by AwayFromHome View Post
                                I don't understand why there is so little talk of a One Nation unionist party being formed. Between the Scots Tories, UUP and English Tory rebels they should reasonably expect to be competitive in 60-80 seats and would hold the balance of power.
                                After the election there might well be no Scots Tory MPs. Not sure the Tory rebels would get into bed with the NI Taliban lite. Situation is too unclear and fluid presently, Tory rebels won't give up on the party until Doris' party is decimated at the polls (which is certain if Doris has to beg the EU for an extension). Then some sort of centre party comprising the LDs, disaffected Lab defectors and One Nation Tory refugees might form a sort of new Liberal party.
                                Last edited by tippete7trees; 11th-September-2019, 10:31.

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