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Brexit referendum and negotiations 2016-19

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    Originally posted by Cowboy View Post

    I dunno boss, I know the Guardian is quite remain-centric but now the local councils are enacting Operation Pisswater its quite quite worrying. It'll be a little story like this that will set a wildfire of panic ablaze would be my worry

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ut-into-action
    The FTSE is up this morning, I am amazed to say. Parliament will revoke article 50 before we see no Deal. That is the default setting for Parliament. No Deal isn’t going to happen, that is the only thing for which there is a large majority in Parliament. Remember, revocation of article 50 is the only thing unilaterally within the control of the UK.
    Last edited by the plastic paddy; 21st-March-2019, 12:12.

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      It will be interesting to see what toilet roll stocks are like in Tesco....
      Last edited by the plastic paddy; 21st-March-2019, 13:11.

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        Who revokes A50 though? Isn't it the PM? She can be ousted but AFAIK she will still be the PM for 14 days.

        Lots of chatter online that she will "deliver Brexit" with, or without, a deal.
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          According to a recent case the ECJ agreed that a member state could withdraw unilaterally but it attached certain conditions - a) They can only leave if any Withdrawal Agreement has not yet come into affect and b) it has to be unconditional . In plain words, a member state has to make it clear that it wishes to maintain its EU membership. So revocation of A50 may be within the purview of Theresa May but the consequences of such a decision would be almost completely unpalatable.
          Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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            Originally posted by Kingfisher234 View Post
            According to a recent case the ECJ agreed that a member state could withdraw unilaterally but it attached certain conditions - a) They can only leave if any Withdrawal Agreement has not yet come into affect and b) it has to be unconditional . In plain words, a member state has to make it clear that it wishes to maintain its EU membership. So revocation of A50 may be within the purview of Theresa May but the consequences of such a decision would be almost completely unpalatable.
            Just to be clear, it wouldn’t be her doing it, it would be Parliament against her express wishes.

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              Even before May's astounding statement last night about MPs, Lindsay Hoyle who is a deputy speaker had "advised MPs they should take a black cab or travel home together to avoid the risk of intimidation or abuse, as public tensions rise over the Brexit process."

              Lisa Nandy - a Labour MP who had voted against any delay beyond 30 June - wrote a pretty scathing article in response to May. Worth replicating here IMO. Theresa May has trashed our democracy and put MPs in danger

              The sense of anger is hard to adequately put into words. Yesterday, in the toxic climate that now defines British politics the prime minister took to a Downing Street podium to place the blame for this national crisis on MPs. She pitted parliament against “the people”, deploying an inflammatory rhetoric reminiscent of far-right populists whose influence is steadily growing in Britain, America and across the world. Reckless doesn’t do it justice.

              Frustration in parliament was already high. For nearly three years the prime minister has refused to listen, reach out or compromise – rejecting efforts to find an accommodation not just with MPs, but with the varied currents of opinion we represent in vastly different and divided communities across the country. She has refused us vital information, asked for our trust and then broken promise after promise. It has brought Britain to the brink and the strain is showing.

              On Monday we debated the government’s plan to allow chemists to limit medicine in the event of a no-deal Brexit. Constituents have contacted me to ask if their medication will be available in just over a week’s time. Their own government says it cannot make any guarantees. The stress and anxiety is grinding people down and the public exasperation is turning to fury. During the referendum there was a sense of powerlessness, anger and betrayal among leave voters. Now I feel it among leave and remain supporters alike. But still the prime minister seeks to stoke division. It is dangerous.

              The political choices that have brought us here have been needlessly cavalier but yesterday, with May’s Downing Street statement, politics took a darker turn. Credible threats have been made to MPs – particularly women – to our families and to our staff. The prime minister knows this, yet chose words yesterday that were incendiary and dangerous. The week after 50 people were murdered in New Zealand because of their religion we should surely know that rhetoric has consequences.

              There has been a steady poisoning of our political discourse in recent years. Technology that should have opened up democracy is used to undermine it. Twitter is used as a tool to attack, condemn, separate us into tribes who see the world in black and white, or good and evil and hoax people into believing the worst of each other. It is commonplace to hear politicians rail against the mainstream media. Institutions such as the BBC and Equality and Human Rights Commission are attacked by politicians on right and left, focusing not on the debates, decisions or content of their policies or programmes but the legitimacy of the institution itself. The language of betrayal is commonplace. Judges are condemned as “enemies of the people”. Civil servants have been attacked in the House of Commons, hung out to dry in newspapers by their own government. They have faced threats to their safety.

              Populism, once unleashed, threatens the basis of liberal democracy itself. Democracy is precious and fragile. It cannot survive without a willingness to cope with the complexity of the world as it is.

              Yesterday in parliament I spent several hours, with my colleague Gareth Snell, trying to reassert those principles of democracy and find a route through this nightmare, by guaranteeing a role for parliament in the next stages of Brexit negotiations; we were trying to ensure that once the withdrawal agreement is passed we end this desperate tug of war and begin the messy, hard business of compromise and the search for common ground. A few hours later, the prime minister stood up inside No 10 Downing Street and trashed our democracy. She is not fit to be prime minister, does not deserve the support of MPs, and she will not get it.
              Tis but a scratch.

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                Originally posted by Kingfisher234 View Post
                According to a recent case the ECJ agreed that a member state could withdraw unilaterally but it attached certain conditions - a) They can only leave if any Withdrawal Agreement has not yet come into affect and b) it has to be unconditional . In plain words, a member state has to make it clear that it wishes to maintain its EU membership. So revocation of A50 may be within the purview of Theresa May but the consequences of such a decision would be almost completely unpalatable.
                I am not sure revocation of article 50 comes with conditions attached in terms of being free to invoke it again further down the line. Anyway, it looks like the only hope of avoiding a no Deal so it will do for me, as would May’s deal. Amazing how having a child whose life depends on a medicine tends to trump all other considerations.

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                  The outcome of today's Brussels meeting is being reported as an extension up to 7 May with no further extension unless the UK agrees to participate in the upcoming elections. That leaves no time for a second ref.
                  "It’s not the team you support, it’s the club you should support. The team on the pitch will ebb and flow because that’s the nature of sport. No team has ever been successful decade on decade. The club has the history and that’s the passion you should have."

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                    Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post

                    Just to be clear, it wouldn’t be her doing it, it would be Parliament against her express wishes.
                    But can Parliament do this? Doesn't the letter need to come from the PM? Couldn't parliament vote to revoke and she just ignores it?
                    ​​​​
                    The actual mechanism needs to be looked at (I haven't a clue what it is).



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                      Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post

                      But can Parliament do this? Doesn't the letter need to come from the PM? Couldn't parliament vote to revoke and she just ignores it?
                      ​​​​
                      The actual mechanism needs to be looked at (I haven't a clue what it is).


                      F’ck knows but they will fudge it like crazy to avoid a no Deal. On the 7th May cut off, it doesn’t rule out a PV at all, imho. If that becomes the consensus then the EU will extend again to accommodate it.

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                        But if the withdrawal agreement failed to pass the Commons by 12 April, the UK could then request a long extension. “If the withdrawal agreement is not approved by the House of Commons next week, the European council agrees to an extension until 12 April, and expects UK to indicate a way forward for the consideration of the European council,” a draft summit communique said.

                        “What this model is designed for is to make it clear that no deal is the not the EU’s choice, it is the UK’s choice,” a diplomatic source said.

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                          No no Deal next Friday.

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                            April 12th the new deal or no deal day
                            "Some people don't know their easy lives... I wouldn't be so ungrateful" - Fiacre Ryan - #AutismAndMe

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                              This will likely be the beginning of the end for the Tories as a powerful political party.

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                                Options are so scarce now that saying another mass must be close
                                I am the million man.

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