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Brexit referendum and negotiations 2016-19

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  • AdolphusGrigson
    replied
    Originally posted by ustix View Post

    THe pp is currently in hibernation near Bristol and will take care of things in the Spring
    It seems he was thrown out for insurbordination...

    Not really a surprise as he had a (healthy) tendency towards telling it as he saw it - but unfortunately I missed all that excitement.

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  • ustix
    replied
    Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post
    where is the Plactic Paddy person who used to have a lot to say on this (now tedious beyond) subject - and will owe me 20 something-or-others if the British do a runner at the end of Jan?
    THe pp is currently in hibernation near Bristol and will take care of things in the Spring

    Leave a comment:


  • tippete7trees
    replied
    Opining for the fjords.

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  • AdolphusGrigson
    replied
    where is the Plactic Paddy person who used to have a lot to say on this (now tedious beyond) subject - and will owe me 20 something-or-others if the British do a runner at the end of Jan?

    Leave a comment:


  • Cowboy
    replied
    Originally posted by JN.Allezdax.com View Post
    As we say in France, les bras m'en tombent i.e. I am absolutely speechless...

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...resting-bridge

    I have to conceed, this man (BoJo) is even more cheeky than I expected and has no limit.
    This said, if the Isle was reunited, it would be easier to get bucks from the EU for the project. And I am even sure Scotland would wait untill the inauguration before going away...
    Mexico is going to pay for it lads

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  • tippete7trees
    replied
    Brexit will last longer than 'The Mousetrap'. In the end they'll be back in whatever form of EU prevails then

    Leave a comment:


  • JN.Allezdax.com
    replied
    As we say in France, les bras m'en tombent i.e. I am absolutely speechless...

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...resting-bridge

    I have to conceed, this man (BoJo) is even more cheeky than I expected and has no limit.
    This said, if the Isle was reunited, it would be easier to get bucks from the EU for the project. And I am even sure Scotland would wait untill the inauguration before going away...

    Leave a comment:


  • AdolphusGrigson
    replied
    The Labour Party civil war is probably going to be longlasting. Worse it will be extremely boiring. It would be good if they could lock themselves away for the duration (guessing about 2 years) and then whoever is left standing just tell everybbody the outcome.

    In the meantimne if the Libdems could find themselves a new (reasonable) leader, move a bit to the left - then they should be able to clean up with Bozo as the PM and if the Plain People of Britiain could just wise up and realise they dont have to keep voting for the 2 bigger god-awful parties..
    Last edited by AdolphusGrigson; 23rd-December-2019, 16:20.

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  • fitzy73
    replied
    Strong rumours that Nigel Farage is to receive a knighthood.

    It says a lot about where Britain is today, and a perfect end to 2019 (if you are a quasi fascist).

    Leave a comment:


  • Balla Boy
    replied
    Originally posted by The Last Stand View Post

    And I suspect that it was forced competition policies driven by the EU which were at the centre of Corbyn’s scepticism. Interestingly the French/Macron position are not a million miles away from this as they perceive the inability for the state to invest as a reason for a lethargic French economy. Although both France and Germany have shown with State Aid investments that it is possible within the confines of EU law and rather it was a British policy position going back to the 1980’s.

    Aside from that those polls tell a lot - people were in favour of the policies but a combination of an aggressive media and poor leadership by Labour meant that the people did not trust them.

    The people will, I am confident, be worse off for voting in the Tories who are already following a right wing ideology by seeking to “reform” the civil service to politicise it (and perhaps also the judiciary) as well as threats against the State media (BBC) for their bias against them.
    Interestingly (if you find this sort of stuff interesting, obviously) in the same set of polling the public when asked if Labour should move left, stay where it is or move to the centre said they should move to the centre.

    Despite supporting the policies when uncoupled from Labour.

    So my analysis at this stage is fourfold:


    1) Brexit. Whatever else happened, the numbers on this are unavoidable. Both pro-second referendum parties were punished in key seats while they held on in others.

    2) Corbyn. His 2017 surge, which his campaign team expected to reproduce, proved to be a one off. The anti-semitism attack line worked, as did the (I still think ludicrous) accusation of "dithering" by not taking a binary view on an issue splitting the country in half.

    3) A loss of control in the manifesto. 2017's was tight, controlled and costed. 2019 attempted to offer more of what had been popular before, but reached a point that people no longer found it credible. Which is partly to do with 2 as well, I suppose, but a tipping point was reached.

    4) The "centre". The British talk about it a lot. They rarely if ever vote for it, but intermittently vote for the one of the main two parties that is paying lip service to it. I'm increasingly of the view that it's a chimera. It's no longer about third ways or electoral triangulation. It's now shorthand for a style that is seen as sensible, pragmatic and non-ideological. The trick is that the British public don't actually care or understand what you intend to do policy wise as long as you maintain this posture of moderation. They're actively afraid of ideology, which is partly cultural reticence and partly widespread political ignorance (of the type that saw Miliband labelled as "far left").



    In short, the British will vote for nationalisation, and state intervention, and progressive taxation, and strong public services as long as they're couched in the language of centrist moderation.

    Similarly, they'll vote for austerity, the shrinking of the state and corporate tax cuts if the person fronting it seems not to be too right wing personally.


    Labour's challenge therefore is to find a plausible, articulate leader who can set about making the case to the public that it's manifesto is a programme for radical change but for non radical reasons.

    As a democratic dynamic, its ****ing farcical. But it is what it is.

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  • Waterfordlad
    replied
    Reminds me of something

    Leave a comment:


  • The Last Stand
    replied
    A German view of PM Johnson and the UK

    Click image for larger version

Name:	EE68A581-D238-4699-8457-F7A4A2F2D945.jpeg
Views:	79
Size:	116.4 KB
ID:	2588401

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  • The Last Stand
    replied
    Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post

    Yougov polling last week had 64% of UK voters in favour of rail nationalisation. 63% in favour of water nationalisation. 69% in favour of renationalising Royal Mail. 55% in favour of renationalising bus operators.

    Even 48% of Tory voters support rail nationalisation.

    And I suspect that it was forced competition policies driven by the EU which were at the centre of Corbyn’s scepticism. Interestingly the French/Macron position are not a million miles away from this as they perceive the inability for the state to invest as a reason for a lethargic French economy. Although both France and Germany have shown with State Aid investments that it is possible within the confines of EU law and rather it was a British policy position going back to the 1980’s.

    Aside from that those polls tell a lot - people were in favour of the policies but a combination of an aggressive media and poor leadership by Labour meant that the people did not trust them.

    The people will, I am confident, be worse off for voting in the Tories who are already following a right wing ideology by seeking to “reform” the civil service to politicise it (and perhaps also the judiciary) as well as threats against the State media (BBC) for their bias against them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Balla Boy
    replied
    Originally posted by Daithi View Post

    Exactment, mon ami. This, allied to suspicion of his regressive, socialist policies (renationalisation, etc), and finally his total lack of charisma & personal popularity did the Labour vote in & left us with bumbling Boris, Brexit & a record conservative majority - ugh!!
    Yougov polling last week had 64% of UK voters in favour of rail nationalisation. 63% in favour of water nationalisation. 69% in favour of renationalising Royal Mail. 55% in favour of renationalising bus operators.

    Even 48% of Tory voters support rail nationalisation.


    Leave a comment:


  • Daithi
    replied
    Originally posted by Yatenga View Post

    I dont think it was Labors equivocal position on Remain that rankled: I just dont think anybody trusted Corbyn on Brexit. I think he is/was a Brexiteer, or at least that was how he came across, probably from a more deeply ideological place than Johnson (not hard I know) and so his trying to play both sides smacked of insincerity and political calculation.
    Exactment, mon ami. This, allied to suspicion of his regressive, socialist policies (renationalisation, etc), and finally his total lack of charisma & personal popularity did the Labour vote in & left us with bumbling Boris, Brexit & a record conservative majority - ugh!!

    Leave a comment:

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