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Brexit referendum and negotiations 2016-19

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    Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post


    T​​​​​​he five funnies in her cabinet seemed to be more of a threat than Moggy & Co who seems to have blasted a hole in his foot.

    ​​​​​​Not sure if the funny five were just holding fire to see what was happening with Moggy or have some sort of cunning plan.
    They were hanging fire to gauge which way the wind was blowing among the membership. They will now know that the membership accepts TM’s Deal isn’t perfect but it is as good as the UK is going to get and everyone should row in behind her and get on with it. The interesting thing, as the prodigals return to the Tory fold will be how Corbyn responds, will he take a punt and risk backing a second referendum: Theresa’s Deal V Remain? Just imagine if TM won that?

    Comment


      Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post

      They were hanging fire to gauge which way the wind was blowing among the membership. They will now know that the membership accepts TM’s Deal isn’t perfect but it is as good as the UK is going to get and everyone should row in behind her and get on with it. The interesting thing, as the prodigals return to the Tory fold will be how Corbyn responds, will he take a punt and risk backing a second referendum: Theresa’s Deal V Remain? Just imagine if TM won that?
      Yep, think Labour are now ahead in polls but not by much. Corbers could yet invite Arlene into the sack, 10 votes are not to be sniffed at.
      ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

      Originally Posted by mr chips
      AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

      Comment


        Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post

        Yep, think Labour are now ahead in polls but not by much. Corbers could yet invite Arlene into the sack, 10 votes are not to be sniffed at.
        Now that would be first class entertainment!?!

        Comment


          Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post

          Now that would be first class entertainment!?!
          In further entertainment - if there is a 2nd referendum - the DUP will have to change sides as they will have to choose Remain over Mays deal.

          How humiliating and embarrassing for them....

          ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

          Originally Posted by mr chips
          AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

          Comment


            Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post

            In further entertainment - if there is a 2nd referendum - the DUP will have to change sides as they will have to choose Remain over Mays deal.

            How humiliating and embarrassing for them....
            Ahh stop. You've got me in tears now............
            Stand up for the Ulcer men

            Comment


              A slight change of wording on the backstop and the DUP will join the ERG in backing the deal. I think her problem with the numbers might come if Corbyn grasps the moment, comes out for a second vote and Remainers such as Clarke, Wollaston, Soubry etc decide to rebel. I don’t think that will happen though because Corbyn is the only leader who actually supports Brexit and also a second vote would risk alienating the Gillian Duffy types who make up such a significant proportion of the Labour vote.

              For the first time since the vote I actually have a feeling Brexit really is going to happen. It won’t be as good as Remaining in the EU but it won’t be a complete unmitigated disaster either and, hopefully, the island of Ireland might do very well out of it. So it turns out it might be neither as good or as bad as everyone said it would be, who would have thunk it!?!?

              For all I do not like the decent into dog whistle politics into which she is now engaging to sell her Deal, Theresa May has managed to achieve a deal that no one on any side said was possible. Over the next few weeks I think the Brexit weary population will come to grudgingly accept that her Deal makes the very best of a very bad job and should be supported so we can all move on.

              Comment


                Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post

                For all I do not like the decent into dog whistle politics into which she is now engaging to sell her Deal, Theresa May has managed to achieve a deal that no one on any side said was possible. Over the next few weeks I think the Brexit weary population will come to grudgingly accept that her Deal makes the very best of a very bad job and should be supported so we can all move on.

                That's not true. Staying in a customs union where the UK takes rules and has no input on them was always a possibility. No one said it was impossible - just quite ****.


                It's not the best of a very bad job when the majority of people want to remain. And even if they didn't, it would be a total dog's dinner.

                If the British public accepts it, they deserve it I suppose. Though I still don't think it will clear Parliament.

                Labour will whip against it, the ERG will oppose it.


                And rightly. It's a really, really ****ing stupid settlement for the UK to enter into.
                "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                Comment


                  May was pretty much friendless again today at PMQ - and rightly so. The deal is awful no matter if you are support leave or remain.

                  I can't see it passing first time around, but if she gets a few concessions it might pass second time around.
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                  Comment


                    Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post
                    May was pretty much friendless again today at PMQ - and rightly so. The deal is awful no matter if you are support leave or remain.

                    I can't see it passing first time around, but if she gets a few concessions it might pass second time around.
                    Clarke has suggested today that he'll vote for it. Never underestimate what a fundamentally craven creature the average Tory MP is.

                    It will be a close run thing. And a mass exercise in national self harm.

                    "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                    "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                    "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post
                      May was pretty much friendless again today at PMQ - and rightly so. The deal is awful no matter if you are support leave or remain.

                      I can't see it passing first time around, but if she gets a few concessions it might pass second time around.
                      I thought she made an utter fool of Corbyn though.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post


                        That's not true. Staying in a customs union where the UK takes rules and has no input on them was always a possibility. No one said it was impossible - just quite ****.


                        It's not the best of a very bad job when the majority of people want to remain. And even if they didn't, it would be a total dog's dinner.

                        If the British public accepts it, they deserve it I suppose. Though I still don't think it will clear Parliament.

                        Labour will whip against it, the ERG will oppose it.


                        And rightly. It's a really, really ****ing stupid settlement for the UK to enter into.
                        The majority might want to Remain, if the alternative were a No Deal and chaos, it no longer is. May’s Deal could well prove to be a lot more popular than crashing out and might hole the second referendum momentum under the water line. Whatever, Clarke’s intervention indicates that May might be in a position to leave the DUP and Corbyn backed into a corner with each other which would be catastrophic for both. That she is now making it clear that it is her Deal or Remain deals with the ERG, who are a spineless bunch of bullies anyway, and have underestimated her toughness and political cunning.

                        Whether the deal is any good has become immaterial, imho, the ERG/ DUP are not in a position to change anything substantively, and will simply need some conciliatory words (without actions) to assuage their complete emasculation and row in behind Theresa’s Deal.

                        Politically she has played an absolute blinder. It has helped her that her main opponents, Corbyn, the DUP and the ERG are either thick, idle, incompetent, arrogant beyond measure or combinations of all of the above, but she has trussed them up like a Christmas turkey.
                        Last edited by the plastic paddy; 21-November-2018, 12:47.

                        Comment



                          Saw the ERG Boys, particularly the two on the left hand side of the image and thought of another gang of chancers

                          Click image for larger version

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                          THIS IS A LOCAL BRITAIN FOR LOCAL PEOPLE!!!!
                          I am the million man.

                          Comment


                            Brilliant work by Leo getting the backstop through(hopefully) and whatever deal that involves either not being in the Customs union or Single Market - the backstop is yer only man.

                            Labour's policy, if anyone knew what it was, with their funny tests - is just a device to wait until the Tories implode - which is fair enough - they are politicians - but doing a deal with the DUP,which is clearly what they are angling for would see them lose the votes of any Irish people in Britain (you would hope anyway) for the forseeable. Neither the DUP or Labour would admit to such an understanding but the noises on both sides have been in both directions for some time.

                            There must be a serious chance as May's Brexit is so soft that any referendum on her deal or Remain would be a vote for her deal.

                            ...in spite of the humiliation of my losing my bet to Plastic Paddy (20 euro?) personally I'm hoping for a 2nd Referendum and Remain - but May's deal with the backstop doesn't really change much so no massive deal if it went through.
                            ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

                            Originally Posted by mr chips
                            AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

                            Comment


                              “There is a third changing element, and in many ways it is the most important. Very late in the day, May has begun to win admiration for her commitment from the public and grudging support for her deal. Yesterday’s YouGov poll showed a transformation in public attitudes. A week ago, 33% of voters wanted her to stay and 47% wanted her to go. Now the figures have reversed – stay 46%, go 34%. That’s an extraordinary turnaround. If she is smart, she will make this work in her favour.”

                              https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...e_iOSApp_Other

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post

                                Clarke has suggested today that he'll vote for it. Never underestimate what a fundamentally craven creature the average Tory MP is.

                                It will be a close run thing. And a mass exercise in national self harm.
                                It's not just the Tories - a hell of a lot of MPs are going to vote against May based on their constituency vote. There were a fair few backbench Tory MPs today who said they could not support the deal - these were so called "rump" Tories.

                                She needs ERG, Pro Remain Tories and DUP to vote with her. All of them.

                                I just can't see that happening.
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