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Brexit referendum and negotiations 2016-19

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    Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post
    1000% want motherhood, apple pie.
    Blah blah money tree blah blah.


    Denmark and Norway aren't fecking Narnia you know.

    And it's beside the point. You asserted that Corbyn's policies have left "scorched earth" in the centre.

    Where's your centre? Right of seventy odd percent of the population?
    "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

    "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


    "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

    Comment


      Those polls, on the things that actually matter and will cost the government something, are tight. I suspect that among the demographic that decides elections, renationalising or building council houses would be low on the wish list. The last election campaign was a complete and utter disaster from May, the worst since 1945 according to my Step father who has been a Tory member since then, yet still Corbyn didn’t get close to actually winning. Sure, more people voted for him but a lot of those votes were at the expense of the Lib Dems and, because of Brexit, they would return to the sandalled fold if there was an election in the spring. Corbyn has too much history/ baggage to pick up the support he needs. As an example, he was right to highlight the deal the Tories have been forced to make with the DUP, but a couple of pictures of him with Adams and McGuinness will destroy any traction. His agenda is not as left wing as commentators claim and proposed by someone without his baggage it would have much more of a chance of electoral success.


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      Comment


        Who though? The Labour party are as split as the Tories. Despite the election results, the PLP haven't gone away.

        On Brexit, you have Labour party views all the way from rerunning the referendum to burning every bridge to the continent (the incontinent Kate Hoey).

        I think it's a moot point anyway as even if May goes they will elect a new Tory leader. Johnson or Rees Mogg could yet lead the UK out of Europe - which is frankly a terrifying thought.
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          Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post
          Those polls, on the things that actually matter and will cost the government something, are tight. I suspect that among the demographic that decides elections, renationalising or building council houses would be low on the wish list. The last election campaign was a complete and utter disaster from May, the worst since 1945 according to my Step father who has been a Tory member since then, yet still Corbyn didn’t get close to actually winning. Sure, more people voted for him but a lot of those votes were at the expense of the Lib Dems and, because of Brexit, they would return to the sandalled fold if there was an election in the spring. Corbyn has too much history/ baggage to pick up the support he needs. As an example, he was right to highlight the deal the Tories have been forced to make with the DUP, but a couple of pictures of him with Adams and McGuinness will destroy any traction. His agenda is not as left wing as commentators claim and proposed by someone without his baggage it would have much more of a chance of electoral success.


          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
          I agree with most of that, but the polling isn't that tight. The "no's" to some of those 50% plus yeses are below 20% with a fair number of don't knows.

          Tony Blair's 1997 landslide came with 43% of the vote. 50-60% approval for anything in the UK is quite significant.


          Agree on the limitations for Corbyn, though I'm not sure about the "he still didn't win" notion. He came from a very low base, under massive media bombardment, against a sitting government that was way ahead in the polls. The increase in his vote was very significant.

          He's now polling at levels not seen since Blair. It was never going to be a one campaign leap, I suspect.

          But all of that aside, and going back to why I sort of derailed the thread in the first place: The idea that the UK is awaiting the arrival of some centrist messiah is outdated, I think. The idea that it's parties have wondered off into right wing and left wing wildernesses that the electorate don't desire is outdated too.

          The last election had the highest return for the two main parties in a very long time. The lib dems couldn't capitalise on brexit to stage a revival.

          The country is simply very, very divided.

          And in that fine balancing, the likes of the DUP and the Tory Right become kingmakers, unfortunately. May believed at the start of her premiership that she could tack toward the centre and free herself of that burden.

          She arrived there to discover that it doesn't really exist any more.
          "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

          "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


          "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

          Comment


            Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post
            Who though? The Labour party are as split as the Tories. Despite the election results, the PLP haven't gone away.

            On Brexit, you have Labour party views all the way from rerunning the referendum to burning every bridge to the continent (the incontinent Kate Hoey).

            I think it's a moot point anyway as even if May goes they will elect a new Tory leader. Johnson or Rees Mogg could yet lead the UK out of Europe - which is frankly a terrifying thought.
            At the risk of causing the collapse of the party system, the truth is that both main party leaders should stand up and say "Our party does not have a view on this, and we're going to accept that it's a cross party issue".

            Remove the whips and allow Parliament to function as a Parliament.
            "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

            "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


            "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

            Comment


              Originally posted by Major TNT View Post
              Thats the end of all the whinging fashionistas obsessing about what mick wallace wears anyway....
              This is what the man wore post gym in his car before getting changed for work. Wallace wears this clobber in the chamber of our National Parliament. You do recognise the difference?

              Comment


                Originally posted by rua13 View Post
                This is what the man wore post gym in his car before getting changed for work. Wallace wears this clobber in the chamber of our National Parliament. You do recognise the difference?
                Unlikely, the shinner bot wouldn't pass a turing test.
                When things go wrong, blame McGahan

                Comment


                  David Davis has just told the select committee that the government hasn't done any sector by sector analysis of the impact of Brexit on the economy.
                  Benn: Has the Government done impact assessments on leaving the EU for individual sectors?
                  Davis: not in sectors..theres no systematic impact assessments
                  Benn: Automotive?
                  Davis: No
                  Benn: Aerospace?
                  Davis: No. No on all of them
                  Davis: when we started the impact assessments, err sectoral analyses, didnt know if we were going to do a negotiation sector by sector... now overall so ..actual impact assessments as you term it is not necessary piece by piece

                  18 months in, for ****'s sake.
                  "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                  "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                  "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                  Comment


                    David Davis, 25 June: "We've already got 50, nearly 60 sector analyses already done"

                    David Davis says "we will at some stage... do the best we can" to quantify the economic impact of different negotiation outcomes.


                    This is the man leading negotiations.



                    I'm...well...I'm...er...**** knows. I haven't had this peculiar mix of bafflement and amazement since my wife asked my opinion on the colour of chair sashes for the wedding.


                    Have a look at this - David Lammy's thread on the process so far:

                    https://twitter.com/DavidLammy/statu...37491691278337
                    Last edited by Balla Boy; 6th-December-2017, 09:46.
                    "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                    "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                    "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post
                      Who though? The Labour party are as split as the Tories. Despite the election results, the PLP haven't gone away.

                      On Brexit, you have Labour party views all the way from rerunning the referendum to burning every bridge to the continent (the incontinent Kate Hoey).

                      I think it's a moot point anyway as even if May goes they will elect a new Tory leader. Johnson or Rees Mogg could yet lead the UK out of Europe - which is frankly a terrifying thought.
                      There won’t be an election until 2021 at the earliest.


                      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Jackie Brown View Post
                        I like it. It's the only deal that keeps the GFA intact. It also has been telegraphed since the referendum was announced. Could never understand why the DUPers went for Brexit, this was always going to be the outcome.

                        I don't agree with Brexit. It'll work even better if GB go for a hard Brexit. We'll have the best of both worlds, an enterprise zone. Something the DUP would have loved just a couple of years ago.

                        Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

                        What's the stance of the younger DUPites or the newer brigade coming in? Do they have a more lenient stance or maybe more compromising?

                        As an aside; on my way to Belfast last season for the Ulster vs Munster match we shared our seats with a man who was directly involved in trade talks between NI and Ire on the NI side. He predicted exactly what would happen and said Foster would be a far harder task master to deal with than Robinson.
                        He's a guy who gets up at six o'clock in the morning regardless of what time it is.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Major TNT View Post
                          You dont really believe that though do you.......

                          (cue abusive attack , incorrect assumptions on my beliefs and general bile && Bs).
                          No majortnt,

                          I believe what I said.

                          I actually believe in democracy.

                          I believe when you get elected for a parliament you show up for work.

                          And I fervently believe that when the biggest deal since the GFA is going down that directly affects your electorate for generations (& possibly the GFA itself) that not to show up for work in Belfast and London then is just free loading, irresponsible nonsense from the good for SFA Shinners......
                          Bloody typical!!

                          P.s. Martin Mcguinness & Ian Paisley could cooperate in the NI assembley ffs, but the present SF lot are so useless, good for SFA, to give 2 hoots about their real electorate in NI. And this when there is a minority gov in Westminster & with the right leadership and work ethic there, they might be actually able to contribute to help their electorate. Disgraceful.

                          Yes mtnt, by showing up to work in parliament a party actually contributes. SF are contributing nothing back to the electorates who elected them and are letting Brexit happen to their electorate without opposing it, by showing up to work!! Ffs!!!

                          P.s. rant over :)
                          Last edited by Daithi; 6th-December-2017, 11:09.
                          ____________________________________________
                          Munster were great when they were Munster.

                          alas they are just north munster now.......
                          ____________________________________________

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                            David Davis, 25 June: "We've already got 50, nearly 60 sector analyses already done"

                            David Davis says "we will at some stage... do the best we can" to quantify the economic impact of different negotiation outcomes.


                            This is the man leading negotiations.



                            I'm...well...I'm...er...**** knows. I haven't had this peculiar mix of bafflement and amazement since my wife asked my opinion on the colour of chair sashes for the wedding.


                            Have a look at this - David Lammy's thread on the process so far:

                            https://twitter.com/DavidLammy/statu...37491691278337
                            Davis is fubared, I think. He has to go.
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                            Comment


                              Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post
                              Davis is fubared, I think. He has to go.
                              He has always been the fall guy. The stage is set for Boris and that greasy toad Gove to move into Downing Street.


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                              Comment


                                Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post
                                He has always been the fall guy. The stage is set for Boris and that greasy toad Gove to move into Downing Street.


                                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
                                More rumours that they are plotting again. Given the previous Et tu Brute moment by Gove, you'd have to wonder why BoJo is keen to work with him again.
                                Please support Milford Hospice. Click here to donate.

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