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Brexit referendum and negotiations 2016-19

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    #16
    Originally posted by bundi View Post
    A job less recovery, you mean we've all got used to being poor........ sounds like a scratch saturday punchline. In other news Paddy Jackson makes try saving tackle and otherwise playing a blinder, surely gets a joe call.
    On that thought, Brexit could give IRFU a few headaches.

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      #17
      Boris Johnson likely to announce tonight that he will campaign for the Out campaign. Big boost for that side.

      http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-...e=news_central
      "I don't believe in fairytales," O'Connell once told me, "even though it feels like I've been lucky enough to live through a few. However it ends, I'll feel lucky."
      Donald McRae, Guardian Rugby, October 2015

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        #18
        Originally posted by bundi View Post
        A job less recovery, you mean we've all got used to being poor........ sounds like a scratch saturday punchline. In other news Paddy Jackson makes try saving tackle and otherwise playing a blinder, surely gets a joe call.
        Nope, there are jobs being created but they won't be in low skilled areas so wont be of much use to lads who used to work as labourers on the building sites or driving trucks for example. A lot of the jobs being created are going to foreign highly skilled immigrants
        My computer thinks I'm gay
        What's the difference anyway
        When all the people do all day
        Is stare into a phone

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          #19
          Originally posted by sewa View Post
          Nope, there are jobs being created but they won't be in low skilled areas so wont be of much use to lads who used to work as labourers on the building sites or driving trucks for example. A lot of the jobs being created are going to foreign highly skilled immigrants
          So more of a less jobs as opposed to job less type non recovery with growth in high worth largely international positions kind of recovery, you'd want a nice bonus to spin any kind of good news story from that. After all to late for u turns now.

          Comment


            #20
            Job less initially, you see the third word in that sentence is sort of crucial. Jobs will follow as the government gets through a few more budgets and start hiring more nurses, teachers and guards. We are not going back to building 50 or 60,000 housing units ever though.
            My computer thinks I'm gay
            What's the difference anyway
            When all the people do all day
            Is stare into a phone

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by blackwarrior View Post
              Boris Johnson likely to announce tonight that he will campaign for the Out campaign. Big boost for that side.

              http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-...e=news_central

              Boris isn't taken seriously on big issues. Like Ken before him he was a novelty candidate for a novelty office.

              The arguments that decide the referendum will come from employers, not politicians imo. Especially those visibly using the issue for personal jockeying.

              Jaguar out of Birmingham, Toyota out of Derby, Honda out of Swindon, Nissan out of Sunderland. That's the battleground.

              Economic uncertainty won the Scottish referendum, and it will win this one.
              "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

              "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


              "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

              Comment


                #22
                Brexit referendum taking place on Thurs 23rd June 2016

                Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                Boris isn't taken seriously on big issues. Like Ken before him he was a novelty candidate for a novelty office.

                The arguments that decide the referendum will come from employers, not politicians imo. Especially those visibly using the issue for personal jockeying.

                Jaguar out of Birmingham, Toyota out of Derby, Honda out of Swindon, Nissan out of Sunderland. That's the battleground.

                Economic uncertainty won the Scottish referendum, and it will win this one.
                Boris might not be taken too seriously in London, but trust me he is taken very seriously by the Tory rank and file. I also think the stay campaign would want to be very careful about scaremongering, truthful or not. They need to make a positive case for remaining in Yerp not just threaten meltdown if the UK leave because the UK won't meltdown if they leave Yerp, and everyone who drives a German car knows that.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post
                  Boris might not be taken too seriously in London, but trust me he is taken very seriously by the Tory rank and file. I also think the stay campaign would want to be very careful about scaremongering, truthful or not. They need to make a positive case for remaining in Yerp not just threaten meltdown if the UK leave because the UK won't meltdown if they leave Yerp, and everyone who drives a German car knows that.

                  The Tory rank and file are a dying (literally) fragment of society though. The middle 40% will decide this, and his appeal doesn't reach that far. Not that he gives a **** - all he cares about is the story leadership.

                  I agree about not running a wholly negative campaign, but saying that the good things that happen because of the EU will stop isn't scaremongering, and the UKs place as the prime English speaking gateway to the EU is underestimated by Brits.

                  And, fwiw, I do think the UK will go into meltdown if if leaves. It's already operating a ponzi economy based on personal debt. Any further attrition in the genuinely productive sectors of manufacturing and it's ****ed (even if it will take a few years for those chickens to come home to roost).


                  The Tories would love nothing better than to set up an off shore pirate ship. Like Switzerland with better beer.

                  But that's not an economy that works for the majority.

                  It's about jobs. Everything else is ideological puffery.
                  "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                  "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                  "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by sewa View Post
                    Any talk of abandoning the current path is madness for Ireland Inc. Growth is happening faster here than anywhere else and that's what will solve the issues. You don't go 90% of a journey and then turn back
                    With all due respect Sewa, I think this is mejia spun group think of the highest order I.e. It's otal Bs.

                    Why?
                    Ireland has enjoyed a never to be repeated multi factor whammy of sweet external conditions for ~5y years being
                    1. Low interest rates, 2. Strong Us &UK economies 3 highly favourable e exchange rates 4.,EU quantitive easing 5. Ultra low oil prices.

                    The likelyhood of any one of these conditions persevering for the next 5 years is low, the chances of all 5 of them staying in place are SFA, & none.

                    So now iis the time to pay down debts, imho,to renegotiate debts we should nevet have been laboured with in the first place (e.g. Anglo's euro 8bn), and to generally guard against the type of good time apathy that you have just exhibited so eloquently in your thoughtful post.

                    When the economic cycle turns against Ireland, as it invariably will, it is imperative we're prepared for it. Imho that's best done out of the Euro currency zone, and with at least 8bn less debt. But I'd settle for one of those, and imho the Brexit issue and Ireland jumping on the UK's diplomatic coat tails with the EU about the Euro currency might be a very opportune and timely chance to achieve this. After all what have we got to lose by trying it? A bit of political face!?!

                    Give me leaders not followers. alas most of our politicians are focus group directed, pr spun, servile, media junkies. They probably think Leadership belonged exclusively to the Roosevelt, Lincoln and Churchill eras!!
                    Last edited by Daithi; 21st-February-2016, 19:16.
                    ____________________________________________
                    Munster were great when they were Munster.

                    alas they are just north munster now.......
                    ____________________________________________

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                      #25
                      Burning bondholders and exiting Europe aren't even being discussed in Ireland. Its pie in sky stuff so i wont waste my time responding further to it.
                      My computer thinks I'm gay
                      What's the difference anyway
                      When all the people do all day
                      Is stare into a phone

                      Comment


                        #26
                        I never said anything abou doing either ffs.

                        I suggested getting the Anglo debt paid by the EU banking fund and exiting the Euro currency.

                        That does not mean exiting Europe no less than Denmark or any other EU sovereign that has its own currency is outside the EU.

                        Do you understand now!?
                        Last edited by Daithi; 21st-February-2016, 19:12.
                        ____________________________________________
                        Munster were great when they were Munster.

                        alas they are just north munster now.......
                        ____________________________________________

                        Comment


                          #27
                          I understand that you must have had one hell of a Saturday night out. Time for your bed
                          My computer thinks I'm gay
                          What's the difference anyway
                          When all the people do all day
                          Is stare into a phone

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by sewa View Post
                            Job less initially, you see the third word in that sentence is sort of crucial. Jobs will follow as the government gets through a few more budgets and start hiring more nurses, teachers and guards. We are not going back to building 50 or 60,000 housing units ever though.
                            Thats a fairly big assumption you're making all the way from Holland, the incumbents are taking in alot of water hereabouts. Could sum them up as arogant and contempuos and am perhaps to kind.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by bundi View Post
                              Thats a fairly big assumption you're making all the way from Holland, the incumbents are taking in alot of water hereabouts. Could sum them up as arogant and contempuos and am perhaps to kind.
                              I am at home in Cork today, not that it matters. When I say the government I am not assuming FG / Lab will be returned although that would be the ideal outcome. There will hopefully be some government formed by economically competent parties. Another vote because no deal can be reached would be a disaster
                              My computer thinks I'm gay
                              What's the difference anyway
                              When all the people do all day
                              Is stare into a phone

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                                The Tory rank and file are a dying (literally) fragment of society though. The middle 40% will decide this, and his appeal doesn't reach that far. Not that he gives a **** - all he cares about is the story leadership.

                                I agree about not running a wholly negative campaign, but saying that the good things that happen because of the EU will stop isn't scaremongering, and the UKs place as the prime English speaking gateway to the EU is underestimated by Brits.

                                And, fwiw, I do think the UK will go into meltdown if if leaves. It's already operating a ponzi economy based on personal debt. Any further attrition in the genuinely productive sectors of manufacturing and it's ****ed (even if it will take a few years for those chickens to come home to roost).


                                The Tories would love nothing better than to set up an off shore pirate ship. Like Switzerland with better beer.

                                But that's not an economy that works for the majority.

                                It's about jobs. Everything else is ideological puffery.
                                But one of the good things that comes from the EU, free trade, is not going to end, even with Brexit because the Germans make a lot more out of the deal than the UK.

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