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Brexit referendum and negotiations 2016-19

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    Originally posted by rathbaner View Post
    I suspect the coup against Corbyn was supposed to be revealed on the night of the local elections but disappointingly for the Blairites, Labour actually polled quite well.

    So the referendum vote was a Godsend for them and Marine LePen.

    I'm not sure about "quite well". It didn't poll as badly as some thought it might, and it would have been hard for them to improve massively on what was a relatively high bench mark set at the previous locals, but they held on at best really.

    The weight of people involved here suggest that it's not some neo-Blairite putsch. There's a genuine belief in the PLP that Corbyn can't win a GE.

    And you can see where they're coming from. Labour activists have been speaking in hushed tones about this day for twenty years plus - the day that the European genie would escape from the bottle and the Tory party would spontaneously combust.

    Here we stand, days after a sitting Tory Prime Minister who won a majority a year ago has been forced from office, and Corbyn simply isn't in a place to capitalize. And it's mostly his own doing.

    I think it's incumbent on the left to try to distinguish between Corbyn's politics and his political ability. He was elected on the basis of both - many members agreed with his politics, but were also engaged by the insurgent campaign he led.

    Since then, he's just failed to deliver. His tone is just about always wrong. And he's failed to capitalize on his strengths.

    A case in point - Ian Duncan Smith. The Chancellor announces a budget heavy on welfare cuts. Labour take a stance and make a lot of noise. Not only are their U-turns on cuts in tax credits for working families, but Ian Duncan Smith actually quits. For tactical reasons, sure, but he quits.

    And Corbyn, having finally given Labour the steel it needed in Parliament to push back on austerity measures, simply failed to go in for the kill. No one even remembers IDS quitting. Having delivered probably the most effective piece of actual opposition that Labour have mustered in two terms (bar the vote on Syria), he pretty much neglected to tell anyone.

    And into that yawning chasm between his commitment to doing the right thing and his ability to let anyone know what he's doing, Labour will fall at the next GE.
    "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

    "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


    "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

    Comment


      FTSE 250 down 6.1%, thats a massive drop
      My computer thinks I'm gay
      What's the difference anyway
      When all the people do all day
      Is stare into a phone

      Comment


        Tell me what people on this earth would vote for a Bribe with their own money ?
        "Spot on - the EU also bribes Scotland with our money to make them think the EU is so indispensable to them.
        In the coming months, the UK should block all EU funding going to such causes that can disintegrate the union. The UK should netogitate a larger rebate and spend that money directly on Wales and Scotland and wean them off EU money."

        Don't thing this chap really understands what has happened. We want out but until we go give us more money.
        A lion online, a lamb at home.

        Comment


          Originally posted by SecondRowGal View Post
          Mayhem begins in the pharma sector:


          http://www.politico.eu/article/brexi...e-to-seat-ema/


          http://www.reuters.com/article/us-br...-idUSKCN0ZA26J

          Milan!! Haven't they watched Gomorroh!!

          Absolutely it has to be somewhere that all the members can get to easily – that narrows it down to Paris, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Brussels, IMO. Dublin would be great as it’s English-speaking, but there aren’t direct flights from each country to Dublin. This is our major disadvantage for any and all EU agencies

          Don't know how reliable site is, but:

          http://www.numbeo.com/crime/city_res...aly&city=Milan

          Problem corruption and bribery
          72.81 High
          I have to say on the subject of Gomorroh (wont say anything specific in case anyone not through it yet) - but certainly warmed to the Ciro character - and he and Genny(?) the son are excellent actors.

          We were also reminded by Gomorroh that power vacuums are not good and simply facilitate the emergence of even more nefarious characters manouevering in the undergrowth and with that in mind it is not clear why the lazy Tories feckdogs cant cancel their holidays and bring forward their conference?
          ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

          Originally Posted by mr chips
          AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

          Comment


            Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post
            I have to say on the subject of Gomorroh (wont say anything specific in case anyone not through it yet) - but certainly warmed to the Ciro character - and he and Genny(?) the son are excellent actors.

            We were also reminded by Gomorroh that power vacuums are not good and simply facilitate the emergence of even more nefarious characters manouevering in the undergrowth and with that in mind it is not clear why the lazy Tories feckdogs cant cancel their holidays and bring forward their conference?


            Insufficient time for politicking. All of those "reviewing their position" are currently casting around to see if they are likely to attract sufficient support, or whether they're better negotiating the price they will extract for standing aside and throwing their weight behind another candidate.

            Fox, for instance, isn't realistically going to run against Boris because Boris owns Fox's sole constituency. But Fox will fly a kite for a bit in the hope of a return to the front bench.

            If everyone interested just put their hand up and they went through rounds of voting until they were down to two the whole business could be wrapped up in a day.
            "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

            "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


            "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

            Comment


              http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7085016.html

              Nearly half of the British public believe Vote Leave’s claim that the UK pays £350 million a week to the European Union despite the figure being debunked, a poll shows.

              Ipsos MORI found that 47 per cent of the public believe that the claim, which has been repeatedly criticised by the UK Statistics Authority, is true.

              Just 39 per cent realise the figure, which has formed the centerpiece of the Leave campaign, is false, while 14 per cent do not know.
              My computer thinks I'm gay
              What's the difference anyway
              When all the people do all day
              Is stare into a phone

              Comment


                Originally posted by SecondRowGal View Post
                Mayhem begins in the pharma sector:


                http://www.politico.eu/article/brexi...e-to-seat-ema/


                http://www.reuters.com/article/us-br...-idUSKCN0ZA26J

                Milan!! Haven't they watched Gomorroh!!

                Absolutely it has to be somewhere that all the members can get to easily – that narrows it down to Paris, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Brussels, IMO. Dublin would be great as it’s English-speaking, but there aren’t direct flights from each country to Dublin. This is our major disadvantage for any and all EU agencies

                Don't know how reliable site is, but:

                http://www.numbeo.com/crime/city_res...aly&city=Milan

                Problem corruption and bribery
                72.81 High
                It would be great to have EMA move to Ireland. 18 of the top 20 Pharma companies have Operations in Ireland, more than in any other EU country as far as I know. Brendan Cuddy, head of the EMA's manufacturing and quality compliance service, is Irish too
                "There are a lot of points that we’ve left behind and this is with a young group. That probably tells you what they’re capable of and that they’re a very good side.

                Probably next year or the year after next they will take some stopping"

                Anthony Foley, May 2016. Axel RIP

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Waterfordlad View Post
                  It would be great to have EMA move to Ireland. 18 of the top 20 Pharma companies have Operations in Ireland, more than in any other EU country as far as I know. Brendan Cuddy, head of the EMA's manufacturing and quality compliance service, is Irish too
                  One of the lads working with me left last Friday week to go work at the EMA. Not the best career move ..
                  Please support Milford Hospice. Click here to donate.

                  Comment


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                    New infraction avoidance policy: a post may be described as imbecilic, but its author should never be described as an imbecile.

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                      https://www.theatlas.com/charts/rkcdMkRH
                      I am the million man.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by sewa View Post
                        http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7085016.html

                        Nearly half of the British public believe Vote Leave’s claim that the UK pays £350 million a week to the European Union despite the figure being debunked, a poll shows.

                        Ipsos MORI found that 47 per cent of the public believe that the claim, which has been repeatedly criticised by the UK Statistics Authority, is true.

                        Just 39 per cent realise the figure, which has formed the centerpiece of the Leave campaign, is false, while 14 per cent do not know.
                        This is frightening. How has Britain got such a large number of disinterested, poorly educated people?

                        I lived in London in the '80s - '90s, it was Thatchers Britain, I went with IR£180 in my back pocket and a bad leaving cert. The amount of people I met who read the tabloids and formed their opinions from their pages was amazing. They took pride in never reading a broadsheet of a book. Britain is opined by Murdoch.
                        I remember the miners strikes, the ambulance drivers strikes, protest marches. Thatcher destroyed the industries of Wales and the North of England, the very heartlands of Brexit. The symptom of this malaise is Brexit, the cause is an isolated underclass, the vacuum will be filled by the right wing despots, striking parallels with Hitlers Germany.
                        A lion online, a lamb at home.

                        Comment


                          Good Tweet

                          Click image for larger version

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                          "There are a lot of points that we’ve left behind and this is with a young group. That probably tells you what they’re capable of and that they’re a very good side.

                          Probably next year or the year after next they will take some stopping"

                          Anthony Foley, May 2016. Axel RIP

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by 5eight View Post
                            This is frightening. How has Britain got such a large number of disinterested, poorly educated people?

                            I lived in London in the '80s - '90s, it was Thatchers Britain, I went with IR£180 in my back pocket and a bad leaving cert. The amount of people I met who read the tabloids and formed their opinions from their pages was amazing. They took pride in never reading a broadsheet of a book. Britain is opined by Murdoch.
                            I remember the miners strikes, the ambulance drivers strikes, protest marches. Thatcher destroyed the industries of Wales and the North of England, the very heartlands of Brexit. The symptom of this malaise is Brexit, the cause is an isolated underclass, the vacuum will be filled by the right wing despots, striking parallels with Hitlers Germany.
                            That is exactly it. Attempting to teach in these areas is like herding cats with riot control thrown in. This vote has been 37 years in the making, 37 years of swathes of society being forgotten. Uncle Monty got it right, "shat on by Tories, shovelled up Labour." God help us.


                            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                            Comment


                              What the current crisis shows is that with a smarter game plan it probably could have been won.

                              The 'Project hate' tagline was a bit of a disaster and simply encouraged those being denigrated by 'the establishment' to vote. Project 'I'm sorry I haven't a clue' would have been better.

                              There should (on reflection) have a long list of questions that could not be answered stuck up on billboards etc. Tony Blair's excellent analogy (just because he's an alleged war-crim doesn't mean he cant do good analogies) of it like people agreeing to move house and one set of surveyors telling them the house is structurally unsound and the other telling them it is fine and dandy. The referendum - at that point in the proceedings - was simply not suitable.

                              Cameron as PM should managed better than turning it into a Bullingdon Club shoot-out.
                              Last edited by AdolphusGrigson; 27th-June-2016, 15:03.
                              ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

                              Originally Posted by mr chips
                              AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

                              Comment


                                Jesus Boris really is being hug out to dry.

                                David Cameron on Article 50:


                                Before we trigger Article 50 we need to determine the kind of relationship we want with the EU. That is something for the next prime minister and his or her cabinet to decide.
                                Please support Milford Hospice. Click here to donate.

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