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Brexit referendum and negotiations 2016-19

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    Originally posted by Pythagoras View Post
    @ Sewa and Munstertel, maybe you are right.
    How keen would you be to have the council buy the house next door and move one of these challenging families in?
    To give your recommendations a spin, like?
    Not great! Not great at all. And would probably be doing my best to remove myself from that situation. I harbour no ill feelings towards people in that situation. I am sympathetic to how people can get trapped in these situations but it does not/has not precluded me from being on the wrong end of thier troubles.

    Very difficult situation. Without planning a proper society this will continue. The people who can afford to move out will and most likely these areas go downhill. And why wouldn't they. Frustrated people fighting for little wealth, status and doing what they have to to survive.
    The whole world cries out peace, freedom and a few less fat bastards eating all the pie.

    Comment


      Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post
      Then there shouldn't be 15,000 + directives to which national governments are beholden. Especially when members of the EEA, such as Norway, are only required to adhere to 26% of them.

      If the EU was based around treaties negotiated between member states rather than laws proposed by commissioners appointed by member states, but not necessarily by the democratically elected government of that member state, maybe there would be fewer directives.



      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      Which directives would you like to see removed?
      "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

      "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


      "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

      Comment


        Brexit referendum taking place on Thurs 23rd June 2016

        Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post
        Then there shouldn't be 15,000 + directives to which national governments are beholden. Especially when members of the EEA, such as Norway, are only required to adhere to 26% of them.

        If the EU was based around treaties negotiated between member states rather than laws proposed by commissioners appointed by member states, but not necessarily by the democratically elected government of that member state, maybe there would be fewer directives.



        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
        The laws may be proposed by the Commissioners but they are adopted by the parliament which is directly elected and the representatives of the directly elected governments.

        Where it can fall down and where there is less transparency is the process of the negotiation of such directives/regulation but even in the committees of parliament many amendments are fed through by the various lobbyists.

        I should add that you can go to your MEP to raise an issue and indeed to seek an amendment to the legislation. Can and does happen.

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        Last edited by The Last Stand; 1st-June-2016, 13:01.

        Comment


          The assumption seems to be made that all directives are intrusions of some sort, rather than facilitative.

          As an example, when Poland was in the run up to join, a huge amount of work had to be done on standardization. Because the free movement of labour meant that Polish Doctors would be free to work in the UK, their medical training and qualification standards had to be brought up to par accordingly. Same with nursing. The free movement of technical professionals across the EU requires a ream of directives to ensure equal standards and, ultimately, safety.

          The same applies to goods. You can't put up protective tariff barriers. So if your manufacturing industry is being held to stringent (and expensive) environmental standards, they won't be able to compete if said standards aren't being implemented in the rest of the EU.

          As far as I can see, the vast bulk of directives in the EU are merely the mechanisms required to ensure that the key treaty commitments around an open market with the free movement of people, goods and capital can be operated safely and effectively.

          I can't call to mind any specific instances of directives that go beyond that. Most "European law" that people in the UK object to stems from the ECHR, not the EU.
          "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

          "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


          "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

          Comment


            Originally posted by Pythagoras View Post
            Doing deals outside your house? That's pretty bad. Glad I don't live there then.
            As opposed to doing deals in another estate then driving back to yours,
            bully for you
            clowns

            Comment


              Originally posted by barleys chinos View Post
              As opposed to doing deals in another estate then driving back to yours,
              bully for you
              Indeed, deals go down regardless. These guys are not around often and we haven't had much issue with them. Just bored young guys acting up. Apart from that its a great place to live and most of the neighbours are excellent, particularly the eastern Europeans next door and three doors up.
              My computer thinks I'm gay
              What's the difference anyway
              When all the people do all day
              Is stare into a phone

              Comment


                Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                Which directives would you like to see removed?
                Given Norway can be a free trading partner with the EU whilst only adhering to 26% of the directives that the UK has to follow I would say there must be scope to remove some, not that it is possible to do that.


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                Comment


                  Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post
                  Given Norway can be a free trading partner with the EU whilst only adhering to 26% of the directives that the UK has to follow I would say there must be scope to remove some, not that it is possible to do that.


                  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                  I am not sure about that figure to be honest - they are required to implement all laws related to the internal market. The drawback to the Norwegian arrangement is that Norway has to contribute to the eu budget, does not get to have an influence on these laws and indeed can still be subject to infringement proceedings.

                  I would personally like to see a lot less laws from the EU but huge tranches of recent eu law in the area of the single market and the digital single market is being driven by the UL.


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                  Comment


                    Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post
                    Given Norway can be a free trading partner with the EU whilst only adhering to 26% of the directives that the UK has to follow I would say there must be scope to remove some, not that it is possible to do that.


                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                    Of course it's possible. You just want the mechanism to be more immediate.

                    That aside though, I still don't know which directives people who want fewer directives want to see go. I'm not sure they know either, to be honest.

                    Do we even know which directives do or don't apply to Norway as a member of the EEA? The only article I can find addressing it is by Daniel Hannan, and he's a crazed sociopathic prick.
                    "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                    "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                    "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                    Comment


                      Europe is a franchise by all accounts you have to weigh up if it's better with or without the Golden Arches over the door,

                      anyway going on European past form they'll keep holding referenda until they get the answer they want.
                      clowns

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                        Of course it's possible. You just want the mechanism to be more immediate.

                        That aside though, I still don't know which directives people who want fewer directives want to see go. I'm not sure they know either, to be honest.

                        Do we even know which directives do or don't apply to Norway as a member of the EEA? The only article I can find addressing it is by Daniel Hannan, and he's a crazed sociopathic prick.
                        Has a single EU directive ever been reversed?


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                        Comment


                          Originally posted by sewa View Post
                          Indeed, deals go down regardless. These guys are not around often and we haven't had much issue with them. Just bored young guys acting up. Apart from that its a great place to live and most of the neighbours are excellent, particularly the eastern Europeans next door and three doors up.
                          Sewa, randomly remarks that of all his neighbours, his eastern european ones are particularly nice and barley likes that.
                          Could it get any nicer?

                          Comment


                            PP ... On Norway ...

                            "While Norway follows around three-quarters of EU directives, this is not the same as saying that Norway obeys three-quarters of EU laws.

                            According to the report, Norway has adopted 1,369 out of 1,965 EU directives, or goals. However, there were also 7,720 EU regulations in force in 2008, just 1,349 – or around 17.5pc – of which were incorporated into the EEA agreement."

                            http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...e-like-norway/

                            Norway pays 306m to access the EU.

                            Given how wounded the rump of Europe would be post Brexit, I can guarantee that the UK will pay a pretty penny to access the market. With NO say in the laws.

                            As a final point, it is up to the EU, and not the UK, to lay down the terms of departure. It'll be a take it or leave it deal, and, as per above will be at a massive cost to UK PLC.
                            Please support Milford Hospice. Click here to donate.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post
                              PP ... On Norway ...

                              "While Norway follows around three-quarters of EU directives, this is not the same as saying that Norway obeys three-quarters of EU laws.

                              According to the report, Norway has adopted 1,369 out of 1,965 EU directives, or goals. However, there were also 7,720 EU regulations in force in 2008, just 1,349 – or around 17.5pc – of which were incorporated into the EEA agreement."

                              http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...e-like-norway/

                              Norway pays 306m to access the EU.

                              Given how wounded the rump of Europe would be post Brexit, I can guarantee that the UK will pay a pretty penny to access the market. With NO say in the laws.

                              As a final point, it is up to the EU, and not the UK, to lay down the terms of departure. It'll be a take it or leave it deal, and, as per above will be at a massive cost to UK PLC.
                              Another example of EU democracy in action?


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                              Comment


                                http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...liberal-europe

                                The Dutch answer to anti social behaviour in council housing.

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