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Brexit referendum and negotiations 2016-18

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    Originally posted by The Last Stand View Post

    You may well be right. It may not be a NON though. It may be that the bar is set so high - no rebate on contributions and a requirement to join the Euro which will be unpalatable to the English for at least 20 years.
    Maggie’s rebate is certainly long gone - but then none of the “remainers” bothered to point out the UK was getting Waitrose at Lidl prices.
    The Remain campaign was a shambles at best and more realistically simply non-existent - the leavers at least had some spirit, misguided as it was,it worked

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      Originally posted by plastic View Post

      Maggie’s rebate is certainly long gone - but then none of the “remainers” bothered to point out the UK was getting Waitrose at Lidl prices.
      The Remain campaign was a shambles at best and more realistically simply non-existent - the leavers at least had some spirit, misguided as it was,it worked
      I wouldn't bet on it. If that a game breaker the UK would be allowed to keep the rebate - have a fudge about it being reviewed.

      EU struggling a bit growth wise and will be keen(er) to have the UK stay.
      ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

      Originally Posted by mr chips
      AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

      Comment


        Speaking in behalf of the Continuity IFA, the Real ICA and the Provisional government of Sunday's Well I think the whole Brexit pantomime was well worth it for relegating the Conservative and Unionist party to 6th place in the expected polls. A feat 1000s of martyrs and patriots never managed in 700 years. Go! Arlene! Go!

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          What's happened to all the Delphian oracles who were telling us Doris Johnson was on the cusp of leading a hard Brexit Tory gov into WW3? The only enlightenment coming from the European election polls is that the Unionist and Conservative Party is busht, busht. The elections themselves don't mean a lot other than embarrassment for the mainstream. Most MPs don't want a hard Brexit and most of the voters are almost certainly 'Remain' at this point. If the parliamentary partys can't agree on a deal and there is a general election the Tories will be destroyed. Most likely result a Labour led coalition followed by a soft Brexit or more likely a 2nd referendum.

          Comment


            Originally posted by tippete7trees View Post
            What's happened to all the Delphian oracles who were telling us Doris Johnson was on the cusp of leading a hard Brexit Tory gov into WW3? The only enlightenment coming from the European election polls is that the Unionist and Conservative Party is busht, busht. The elections themselves don't mean a lot other than embarrassment for the mainstream. Most MPs don't want a hard Brexit and most of the voters are almost certainly 'Remain' at this point. If the parliamentary partys can't agree on a deal and there is a general election the Tories will be destroyed. Most likely result a Labour led coalition followed by a soft Brexit or more likely a 2nd referendum.
            Not sure where you getting that from - possibly a small majority in favour of Remain - but it looks to be very close.
            ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

            Originally Posted by mr chips
            AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

            Comment


              Originally posted by tippete7trees View Post
              What's happened to all the Delphian oracles who were telling us Doris Johnson was on the cusp of leading a hard Brexit Tory gov into WW3? The only enlightenment coming from the European election polls is that the Unionist and Conservative Party is busht, busht. The elections themselves don't mean a lot other than embarrassment for the mainstream. Most MPs don't want a hard Brexit and most of the voters are almost certainly 'Remain' at this point. If the parliamentary partys can't agree on a deal and there is a general election the Tories will be destroyed. Most likely result a Labour led coalition followed by a soft Brexit or more likely a 2nd referendum.
              The Brexit party polling at 34% ( a significant underestimate, imho as I have yet to encounter a single Leave voter who is supporting anyone other than Farage, and that includes lifelong Tory party members) is tactical and confined solely to the European Parliamentary elections. It would be highly unlikely to be replicated in a General Election if a Leaver takes over leadership of the Tories, which is all but certain at this stage, and if Corbyn is still leading the Labour Party.

              On the subject of the Labour Party, btw, why they would countenance a deal with May is completely beyond comprehension. Her successor will tear up any agreement and there will be no way of future proofing it.

              As for everyone flocking back to Remain, they will have to find some way of removing Farage from the equation, if there is another vote, which I think is unlikely anyway, because, as loathesome as he is, (Widecombe is even worse, I wouldn’t piss on her if she was on fire) he is an absolute master at rousing the rabble and is far and away the most effective politician in the UK right now. If he wins 40% of the EP vote, and I think he might, the next Tory leader will be slightly to the left of Vlad the Impaler and will be leading the UK out of Europe on Halloween with or without a deal. He could well be doing it having called and won a snap election purely on the issue of Brexit. Then we will all be praying for a wet and cold summer in 2020 to try and preempt the country descending into levels of violence and civil disobedience not seen since Peterloo.

              Whilst Farage is whipping everyone up into a frenzy, the Remain side are as useful as a chocolate teapot, with every intervention from Blair and Campbell making life even easier for Farage.

              Honestly this country is on the brink, the very brink...

              Comment


                But surely now is the time that the Lib dems, tiggers, snp and SDLP/alliance start to split the election. At this rate they will lose through pride.
                Seven social sins: politics without principles, wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, and worship without sacrifice



                Comment


                  Originally posted by scotscor View Post
                  But surely now is the time that the Lib dems, tiggers, snp and SDLP/alliance start to split the election. At this rate they will lose through pride.
                  It Is fecking ludicrous, quite literally fiddling while Rome burns...

                  Comment


                    ...and meanwhile FD investment soars and Britain is expected to have a higher rate of growth than Germany.

                    funny old game.
                    ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

                    Originally Posted by mr chips
                    AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post

                      Not sure where you getting that from - possibly a small majority in favour of Remain - but it looks to be very close.
                      And they have got to try and engineer a means of having a second referendum in the first place and I can’t see how it can be done given how Brexit support extrapolates via the UK’s first past the post electoral system. Every poll showing ludicrous support for Farage and his coterie of extremely unpleasant and dangerous clowns makes it even harder for Labour to back a second vote and even more likely that the Tories are going to lurch even further to the right. The support for Farage actually makes things much simpler for the Tories it makes things impossibly difficult for Labour.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post

                        The Brexit party polling at 34% ( a significant underestimate, imho as I have yet to encounter a single Leave voter who is supporting anyone other than Farage, and that includes lifelong Tory party members) is tactical and confined solely to the European Parliamentary elections. It would be highly unlikely to be replicated in a General Election if a Leaver takes over leadership of the Tories, which is all but certain at this stage, and if Corbyn is still leading the Labour Party.

                        On the subject of the Labour Party, btw, why they would countenance a deal with May is completely beyond comprehension. Her successor will tear up any agreement and there will be no way of future proofing it.

                        As for everyone flocking back to Remain, they will have to find some way of removing Farage from the equation, if there is another vote, which I think is unlikely anyway, because, as loathesome as he is, (Widecombe is even worse, I wouldn’t piss on her if she was on fire) he is an absolute master at rousing the rabble and is far and away the most effective politician in the UK right now. If he wins 40% of the EP vote, and I think he might, the next Tory leader will be slightly to the left of Vlad the Impaler and will be leading the UK out of Europe on Halloween with or without a deal. He could well be doing it having called and won a snap election purely on the issue of Brexit. Then we will all be praying for a wet and cold summer in 2020 to try and preempt the country descending into levels of violence and civil disobedience not seen since Peterloo.

                        Whilst Farage is whipping everyone up into a frenzy, the Remain side are as useful as a chocolate teapot, with every intervention from Blair and Campbell making life even easier for Farage.

                        Honestly this country is on the brink, the very brink...
                        I was with you all the way.....until you got into bed with Vlad. There's a majority of MPs still with some tenuous grasp on reality and won't allow a hard Brexit. The Tories will be slaughtered at the polls in a GE, Madge Thatcher will turn in her grave (assuming the deranged vampire is still dead) and they will be split in 2. The electorate will never forgive the Tories for engineering this fiasco, albeit there will be spare blame shared around. In a way, the die hard Brits still longing for Empire would have to cleave from the Conservatives at some point.......... Brexit just brought the crisis forward.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by tippete7trees View Post

                          I was with you all the way.....until you got into bed with Vlad. There's a majority of MPs still with some tenuous grasp on reality and won't allow a hard Brexit. The Tories will be slaughtered at the polls in a GE, Madge Thatcher will turn in her grave (assuming the deranged vampire is still dead) and they will be split in 2. The electorate will never forgive the Tories for engineering this fiasco, albeit there will be spare blame shared around. In a way, the die hard Brits still longing for Empire would have to cleave from the Conservatives at some point.......... Brexit just brought the crisis forward.
                          A Tory party led by May, yes they would be looking at annihilation. A Tory party led by Boris, which comes to a truce/ accommodation with Farage is a different matter entirely.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post

                            And they have got to try and engineer a means of having a second referendum in the first place and I can’t see how it can be done given how Brexit support extrapolates via the UK’s first past the post electoral system. Every poll showing ludicrous support for Farage and his coterie of extremely unpleasant and dangerous clowns makes it even harder for Labour to back a second vote and even more likely that the Tories are going to lurch even further to the right. The support for Farage actually makes things much simpler for the Tories it makes things impossibly difficult for Labour.
                            Assuming Labour opt for remain at a GE and promises a 2nd referendum- that gives the country a clear(ish) path out of the muddle.

                            Bottom line is if a majority of the British people NOW want Brexit (with a no deal) then that is what they should have.
                            ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

                            Originally Posted by mr chips
                            AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post

                              A Tory party led by May, yes they would be looking at annihilation. A Tory party led by Boris, which comes to a truce/ accommodation with Farage is a different matter entirely.
                              I think you underestimate the disillusion of many former Tory supporters over the Tory shenanigans and the middle ground swing stratum have abandoned the Tories for good. Also Doris as leader will precipitate an immediate split as there's a sizable group of moderate Tories who will split if Doris gets the leadership.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post
                                Honestly this country is on the brink, the very brink...
                                I agree. It's a powderkeg.

                                Ann f**king Widecombe being cheered into a working mans club in Yorkshire tells you all you need to know. A party without a single policy other that "get us of of the EU" leading not just the polling in the EU elections, but being second in polling for a GE. Stephen Yaxley Lesson likely to get elected - an actual real fascist in the European parliament. Wall to wall coverage of the Brexit party on Sky News and the BBC. The Lib Dems and greens getting pretty much zero coverage. Labour getting splinters in their arse from sitting on multiple fences at once.

                                This is the most dangerous time in UK politics since the early 1930s and the Blackshirts.



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