Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Brexit referendum and negotiations 2016-18

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Originally posted by tippete7trees View Post

    Speaking on behalf of the ordinary respectable nut job community I resent this pejorative equivocation with the ERGs. IMO the ERGs need at least 500 years of intense psychiatric treatment along with regular electro-convulsive therapy just to get them UP to the level of nut job.
    Spare a thought for the DUP:

    They could have left the EU which is their wish for a strange reason yet could play a part in creating a special economic zone which was both in the U.K. and all their fantastic trade agreeements and Have special access and free movement to EU markets for goods and services.

    Which means financial independence, which means GB companies locating in NI for access to the EU and EU/Non-EU business seeing NI as the gateway to the IK. Plus having the freedom on their tax.

    when history judges this, a serious question will be were they stark raving mad or just stupid.
    Last edited by The Last Stand; 13th-March-2019, 21:54.

    Comment


      Yes TLS, I think I was making almost exactly that point in this thread away last year (or possibly even the year before!), i.e. that they could get the best of both worlds for NI with a foot in both camps. Sure prior to the whole Brexit debacle, they had spent ages arguing for the right to lower the corporation tax rate here in NI - didn't seem to bother them at the time that that would create yet another differential between NI and GB! But these days, they're too busy slicing off their eyelids so as to be unblinking (their own analogy) and are completely wedded to the mindset of neverrrr, neverrrr, neverrrr ...
      Tis but a scratch.

      Comment


        But Flegs!
        "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

        "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


        "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

        Comment


          Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
          But Flegs!
          And massive drums and bowler hats
          I am the million man.

          Comment


            Reminds me of a great Robbie Coltrane sketch from years ago about a character called Mason Boyne:

            https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=c2SEhNwIIYs


            Last edited by Waterfordlad; 14th-March-2019, 11:11.
            "There are a lot of points that we’ve left behind and this is with a young group. That probably tells you what they’re capable of and that they’re a very good side.

            Probably next year or the year after next they will take some stopping"

            Anthony Foley, May 2016. Axel RIP

            Comment


              The question is how many of the ERG lot will wet the bed and come over to Mays side now. The whole thing is a farce, but going for a 3rd vote is beyond parody.

              I'll say this again - a no deal is not off the table at all. It might be accidental, it might be a deliberation ploy from a few ERGers, but it's still a runner. In fact, lots of EU type people on Twitter think it's going to happen.

              If a third vote fails, I think the EU won't extend A50 (except for a no deal prep), and the UK is goosed.
              Please support Milford Hospice. Click here to donate.

              Comment


                Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post
                The question is how many of the ERG lot will wet the bed and come over to Mays side now. The whole thing is a farce, but going for a 3rd vote is beyond parody.

                I'll say this again - a no deal is not off the table at all. It might be accidental, it might be a deliberation ploy from a few ERGers, but it's still a runner. In fact, lots of EU type people on Twitter think it's going to happen.

                If a third vote fails, I think the EU won't extend A50 (except for a no deal prep), and the UK is goosed.
                I cannot see the EU allowing a No Deal after last nights vote.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post

                  I cannot see the EU allowing a No Deal after last nights vote.
                  I'm happy to be corrected on this, but assuming the vote for an extension goes through, the UK parliament will need to get the EU to agree to an extension, and pass primary legislation to amend / repeal the European Withdrawal Act.

                  In the next two weeks!
                  Please support Milford Hospice. Click here to donate.

                  Comment


                    Two of the amendments they will vote on this evening will introduce the option of a second referendum. However I think these will only be indicative votes, meaning that even if they pass there won't be any obligation to implement them.

                    EDIT correction, only one amendment calling for a second referendum will actually be voted on.
                    Last edited by mr chips; 14th-March-2019, 13:46.
                    Tis but a scratch.

                    Comment


                      Labour will be abstaining from voting on that amendment, with support for their decision coming from both the People's Vote campaign and Best for Britain, both of which are campaigning for a second referendum, on the grounds that today should only be about extending Article 50. Even the likes of Keir Starmer and Phil Wilson (the co-creator of the Kyle-Wilson proposal to back May's deal subject to it being put to a public vote) have made statements to that effect. Seems quite contradictory nonetheless, but I suppose there was a fair bit of chat that there wouldn't be the votes to support the 2nd ref amendment today. The amendment itself was brought by Sarah Wollaston, who was one of those who left the Tories to join Chukka and friends in "The Independent Group", so it might even be that they decided to table that amendment today in the knowledge that Labour wouldn't support it and therefore could be made to look bad. You would hope not, especially considering how big a deal they make out of focusing on the bigger picture over party politics, but I guess it couldn't be ruled out either. On the other hand, maybe it will serve to bring pressure on Labour to be more pro-active in campaigning for a second referendum ...

                      Rest assured, it's all still a sh1tshow anyway.

                      EDIT and even Wollaston herself has said that her amendment may fail today, but that it can be brought back next week.
                      Last edited by mr chips; 14th-March-2019, 15:38.
                      Tis but a scratch.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post

                        I'm happy to be corrected on this, but assuming the vote for an extension goes through, the UK parliament will need to get the EU to agree to an extension, and pass primary legislation to amend / repeal the European Withdrawal Act.

                        In the next two weeks!
                        If Tusk says there is an extension there will be an extension, they will worry about the niceties afterwards. They cannot risk a no Deal because it won’t be as, ostensibly, catastrophic as everyone has been saying and the EU will have to close the Irish border which they won’t do. The No Deal votes last night have strengthened May’s hand.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by mr chips View Post
                          Two of the amendments they will vote on this evening will introduce the option of a second referendum. However I think these will only be indicative votes, meaning that even if they pass there won't be any obligation to implement them.

                          EDIT correction, only one amendment calling for a second referendum will actually be voted on.
                          The PV crowd asked Labour and the other remain MPs to abstain, for reasons that are unfathomable, so it was crushed.

                          They are, at the same time, trying to organise a massive march on Parliament in a week's time to, er, demand a people's vote.

                          I think they've just killed a PV.
                          Please support Milford Hospice. Click here to donate.

                          Comment


                            Meanwhile, it would appear that the prospect of tariff-free access to the NI market has gone down so well with those farmers who might normally vote for the DUP that it might, just might, have prompted Snarlene & co to look at "the whites of their eyes" ... and blink.

                            DUP leader ready to strike deal with May to end Brexit impasse

                            It depends on whether they can manage to find an interpretation of Cox's legal advice that will let them say "actually that's all fine". However, for them to rely on the clause they are trying to use to find a way out of the corner into which they've painted themselves is pretty shaky, to say the least: "Howe told the Standard that the use of the convention required a “radical change of circumstances” and said that the international court of justice had considered “the fall of the Soviet Union, disappearance of the Warsaw Pact and dissolution of Czechoslovakia, were not sufficient to satisfy this ground”.
                            Tis but a scratch.

                            Comment


                              And in terms of extending Article 50, they have voted in favour of doing so by a majority of 210, having previously narrowly rejected a Labour amendment calling for a short extension - this is being taken by some to indicate a majority in favour of a longer extension.

                              The Wollaston motion calling for a second referendum was, as expected, defeated after Labour largely abstained. However in spite of the instruction to abstain, 25 Labour MPs chose to vote in favour of it while 18 Labour MPs chose to vote against it.
                              Tis but a scratch.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post

                                The PV crowd asked Labour and the other remain MPs to abstain, for reasons that are unfathomable, so it was crushed.

                                They are, at the same time, trying to organise a massive march on Parliament in a week's time to, er, demand a people's vote.

                                I think they've just killed a PV.
                                It's all about sequencing. Which is the reason why May's deal still has a chance. Only when a second referendum is the last option available will enough MPs vote for it. Norway plus/ Common Market 2.0/ Labour's deal would have to be rejected first, as well as May's WA. Then "moderates" would vote for a referendum. Seems unlikely that it would ever come to that, but stranger things have been happening.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X