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Brexit referendum and negotiations 2016-18

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    Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post

    That is simply wrong. He has directly criticised the backstop.
    The argument is that he criticised the different regulatory environment. His speech of yesterday:

    "The backstop would apply separate regulatory rules to Northern Ireland. This is despite the fact that the current Prime Minister said this is something “no UK Prime Minister could ever agree to”. Another of her red lines, breached. In fact the list of EU measures that continue to apply to Northern Ireland only runs to 75 pages of the Agreement."

    Comment


      Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post

      Labour spokesman talking about staying in the single market while controlling FOM is another preposterous position. Surely Corbyn has got to come out in favour of a second referendum.
      Is this the June proposal by Keir Starmer?

      Comment


        Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post

        I'm not sure where you got the idea that the position of the Labour Party on the backstop was anything but deeply unpopular in Ireland - unlikely to be different with the Irish in Britain (except with diehards).

        Not sure what's 'contrarian' in highlighting a widely held view.

        https://www.irishnews.com/news/brexi...-deal-1493865/
        Straw Man

        Comment


          Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post

          I'm not sure about that - but I will bet my hat that the Irish in Britain are appalled by the attitude of the Labour Party which paints itself as friend of Ireland and is cosying up in bed with the DUP.
          False Dichotomy and Guilt By Association.

          Comment


            Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post
            The Labour Party being told off by a moderate Unionist MP, Sylvia Hermon, for going against the people of Northern Ireland and aligning with the extreme Unionist DUP against the backstop....unfeckingbeleivable.

            Any Irish people who have previously voted for The Labour Party in Britain must now be extremely embarrassed to have such a bunch of complete sh1testers representing them.
            False Dichotomy and Guilt By Association.

            Comment


              Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post

              Yep, I agree, the only really significant thing today was Grieve's amendment - May probably had an 'understanding' with Grieve on that - if not I'm sure she privately welcomes it.
              Magical Thinking.

              Comment


                Originally posted by HenryFitz View Post

                Magical Thinking.
                Check out the voting record of Oliver Letwin.
                ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

                Originally Posted by mr chips
                AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

                Comment


                  Originally posted by HenryFitz View Post

                  False Dichotomy and Guilt By Association.
                  Since when is it 'association' to specifically argue against a political policy i.e. the Backstop, to vote against it and to damage its prospects of implementation - that is precisely the position of the Labour Party on the backstop..
                  ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

                  Originally Posted by mr chips
                  AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

                  Comment


                    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-eu-referendum

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post
                      It is genuinely impossible to say which of the 2 main parties is worse - in terms of coherence and credibility - the LibDems, even with their shocking u turn on tuition fees look sensible and competent - by comparison.
                      ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

                      Originally Posted by mr chips
                      AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post

                        It is genuinely impossible to say which of the 2 main parties is worse - in terms of coherence and credibility - the LibDems, even with their shocking u turn on tuition fees look sensible and competent - by comparison.
                        Once the cat is out of the bag, that is the realisation and acceptance of how deeply unpopular thw EU has become, then it's always going to make party political coherence difficult.

                        I'd say a referendum in France on EU membership would be fairly close too.

                        The trick is to engineer an amicable divorce with the EU which satisfies 10-15% of Leavers and **** the extremists. But that'll be some trick if Corbyn can pull it off.

                        May's only hope now is that five full days of debate will bore everyone into submission one the hotheads and crazies have had a say.
                        Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2019.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by rathbaner View Post

                          Once the cat is out of the bag, that is the realisation and acceptance of how deeply unpopular thw EU has become, then it's always going to make party political coherence difficult.

                          I'd say a referendum in France on EU membership would be fairly close too.

                          The trick is to engineer an amicable divorce with the EU which satisfies 10-15% of Leavers and **** the extremists. But that'll be some trick if Corbyn can pull it off.

                          May's only hope now is that five full days of debate will bore everyone into submission one the hotheads and crazies have had a say.
                          It will be an even better trick if Corbyn can muster the 2/3 majority he needs to get rid of the Tories under the fixed term parliament act.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post

                            Since when is it 'association' to specifically argue against a political policy i.e. the Backstop, to vote against it and to damage its prospects of implementation - that is precisely the position of the Labour Party on the backstop..
                            Guilt By Association (ad hominem version) - DUP and Labour
                            A vote against the backstop constitutes a vote for paramilitary violence, or against Irish interests - False Dichotomy

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post

                              Check out the voting record of Oliver Letwin.
                              No. Red Herring.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post

                                It is genuinely impossible to say which of the 2 main parties is worse - in terms of coherence and credibility - the LibDems, even with their shocking u turn on tuition fees look sensible and competent - by comparison.
                                There have been plenty of political parties that have had to change tack once they get into power and see the true, grim realities of the balance sheet. The Lib Dems have been shameless in being everything for everyone but I always felt the kicking they took over their time in government was tough, especially considering it was the Labour Party who bankrupted the public finances in the first place.

                                Comment

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