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Brexit referendum and negotiations 2016-18

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    Originally posted by AwayFromHome View Post

    Then you don’t know how negotiations work between sovereign states. Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed is not just a platitude. It is a serious operating principle of diplomats. You have to move things in batches otherwise it’s unmanageble but if you don’t like what is happening in later batches you don’t have to remain committed to what was agreed in principle in earlier rounds.
    You are misunderstanding what I'm saying - Leo and May probably have agreement from months ago - this agreement can be carried forward into any legal text subsequently agreed and this legalese is worked out from the agreed principle - not the other way round.

    Many people thought the DUP would be thrown under the Bus marked - regulatory border in the Irish sea - this she will probably have agreed with Leo - the point at which it becomes text and then legal text is matter for political consideration - in this instance probably after the British budget.

    Same with no deal - another form of words to suit the principle of the backstop as the British probably don't want the North kicking off when they are trying to get trade deals.

    With crazy mad dog Brexiteers possibly in charge who knows - but they will probably regain their senses when and if they get power.
    Last edited by AdolphusGrigson; 12th-October-2018, 16:45.
    ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

    Originally Posted by mr chips
    AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

    Comment


      The fact that a potential Brexit deal could be rejected in the UK because the Tory government is propped up by a few Northern headbangers says a lot about the state of politics in the UK and Europe at the moment. The DUP are pushing hard for a no deal because they know that would give them free reign to stick checkpoints on the M1. All they care about is their Union.
      Claim of renewed disagreements on solution for avoiding hard Irish border met with scepticism by EU diplomats
      "It’s not the team you support, it’s the club you should support. The team on the pitch will ebb and flow because that’s the nature of sport. No team has ever been successful decade on decade. The club has the history and that’s the passion you should have."

      Comment


        What's utterly maddening is that the British are trying to row back on the agreement they signed previously and time limit the backstop. May wants a time limit to placate the halfwits like Davis and BoJo, but no way will the EU agree to this. How they resolve this is anyones guess.

        What is clear is that the chances of a second referendum are practically over.

        This week is possibly the most important week in British / European relations since the Paris peace treaties of 1947 - that is unless another can is kicked down the road.
        Please support Milford Hospice. Click here to donate.

        Comment


          Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post
          What's utterly maddening is that the British are trying to row back on the agreement they signed previously and time limit the backstop. May wants a time limit to placate the halfwits like Davis and BoJo, but no way will the EU agree to this. How they resolve this is anyones guess.

          What is clear is that the chances of a second referendum are practically over.

          This week is possibly the most important week in British / European relations since the Paris peace treaties of 1947 - that is unless another can is kicked down the road.


          Why do you think that Fitzy? I'd have thought the closer this shambles draws to no deal the louder the voices for a 2nd ref will get.
          "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

          "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


          "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

          Comment


            Megan up the duff, due to pop Brexit time, talk about opportune timing..
            Nulla semper amicus, servivit mihi, in iniuriam mihi neminem quem non persolvi

            Comment


              I think she has opened two vistas and has basically said that she is indifferent to both. One is indefinite customs union, the other is a second referendum. If the brexiteers vote down the first they are faced with the second. More popcorn please
              Seven social sins: politics without principles, wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, and worship without sacrifice



              Comment


                Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post



                Why do you think that Fitzy? I'd have thought the closer this shambles draws to no deal the louder the voices for a 2nd ref will get.
                I think ultimately there will be a deal. A very, very bad deal but a deal nonetheless. The EU are sick of the British and just want to get them out and move on. Deal and there is no second ref (unless the deal is voted down in parliament).

                No deal and the path to a second ref is easier, BUT will the EU allow it? ECJ judgement soon on whether A50 can be revoked and I'd be astonished if they said it could be.

                So either way I think they will leave, deal or no deal.

                A generation later, and a lot poorer, they will look to rejoin.
                Please support Milford Hospice. Click here to donate.

                Comment


                  The deal will be customs union with no end date for all UK. This gets back to parliament a d the choice is this or second vote. What do the brexiteers do then? They have to vote it down, you are then left with what shape is the second second referendum.
                  Seven social sins: politics without principles, wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, and worship without sacrifice



                  Comment


                    Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post

                    I think ultimately there will be a deal. A very, very bad deal but a deal nonetheless. The EU are sick of the British and just want to get them out and move on. Deal and there is no second ref (unless the deal is voted down in parliament).

                    No deal and the path to a second ref is easier, BUT will the EU allow it? ECJ judgement soon on whether A50 can be revoked and I'd be astonished if they said it could be.

                    So either way I think they will leave, deal or no deal.

                    A generation later, and a lot poorer, they will look to rejoin.
                    I still can't see a deal configuration that May can get through Parliament, to be honest. The brexiteers are ready to collapse her government if needed.
                    "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                    "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                    "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                    Comment


                      People floating the idea of a second referendum are not taking into account the possibility that people will still vote to leave, imagine that two referendums that people vote leave in. Is there any going back from that?

                      Comment


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                        "Ah shur yew can never have toooo many referendums"

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Sulla View Post
                          Megan up the duff, due to pop Brexit time, talk about opportune timing..
                          Coming over here and taking our Princes' and - getting pregnant as soon as they are in the door.
                          ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

                          Originally Posted by mr chips
                          AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

                          Comment


                            If the British wish to feck off out of the EU - that's their call - what we need is them not to feck up Ireland.

                            Leo has played a blinder on the backstop - if we get that - the British can take to their bikes - as per their referendum result - otherwise Leo needs to say (privately) no backstop then no deal - and explain to the British that they will have to do without flying and cut back on their fresh food etc.

                            ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

                            Originally Posted by mr chips
                            AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by scotscor View Post
                              The deal will be customs union with no end date for all UK. This gets back to parliament a d the choice is this or second vote. What do the brexiteers do then? They have to vote it down, you are then left with what shape is the second second referendum.
                              I think there will be an end date for the Customs Union - EU keeping that up their sleeve for last minute concession. Old Indian trick (one of Leo's).

                              May will find a form of words that the NI backstop has no end date which will kick in after Britian leaves Customs Union - which may be another year after the 2 year implementation/what-the-feck-are-we-about-to-do period.



                              ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

                              Originally Posted by mr chips
                              AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by lawrence View Post
                                People floating the idea of a second referendum are not taking into account the possibility that people will still vote to leave, imagine that two referendums that people vote leave in. Is there any going back from that?
                                If May has half a brain she has a chance for a decent place in history, which might be her only hope now anyway. A hard Brexit being unavoidable?.................she should engineer an election and let Corbyn in. He will get a sensible Brexit, which is what the public want. May will be gone but the Tories will embark on the mother of all civil wars and likely split. Die Fuhrer Johnson and the Rev Rees-Mogg will be toast. History will thank her for that.

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