Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Brexit referendum and negotiations 2016-18

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Is there any resolution to it?

    Out of Europe means out of Customs union, they can’t allow it to be any other way, and leaving the North in the customs union won’t work because it would seperate the north from the mainland, which English politicians and northern won’t agree with.

    I can’t see a deal being reached that keeps all sides happy, so either someone, or lots of people back down. May has to come up with something that Europe will accept, her party will approve, the DUP will accept, and the English voters will be happy.

    There were only two sides in the North and look how long that took to broker a deal on peace.

    Its an impossible task, I can see a referendum if they put their arrogance to the side, but that would mean going back on their stance and the possibility of another brexit vote carrying would make them look dumber.

    my guess, hard brexit, customs checkpoints up north, and lots and lots of hassle for lots and lots of people who operate across those borders.

    Comment


      Looks as though they are going to stay in the CU .. for a while. DUP saying they will vote down the budget.

      The next two weeks are going to be

      Click image for larger version

Name:	giphy.gif
Views:	1
Size:	1.58 MB
ID:	2542747

      Please support Milford Hospice. Click here to donate.

      Comment


        Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post
        Looks as though they are going to stay in the CU .. for a while. DUP saying they will vote down the budget.

        The next two weeks are going to be

        Click image for larger version

Name:	giphy.gif
Views:	1
Size:	1.58 MB
ID:	2542747
        That would cause a snap election right? What would people expect if that happened? Another hung parliament with the Tories even weaker, but Labour still a bit short of majority?

        Comment


          Originally posted by lawrence View Post
          Is there any resolution to it?

          Out of Europe means out of Customs union, they can’t allow it to be any other way, and leaving the North in the customs union won’t work because it would seperate the north from the mainland, which English politicians and northern won’t agree with.

          I can’t see a deal being reached that keeps all sides happy, so either someone, or lots of people back down. May has to come up with something that Europe will accept, her party will approve, the DUP will accept, and the English voters will be happy.

          There were only two sides in the North and look how long that took to broker a deal on peace.

          Its an impossible task, I can see a referendum if they put their arrogance to the side, but that would mean going back on their stance and the possibility of another brexit vote carrying would make them look dumber.

          my guess, hard brexit, customs checkpoints up north, and lots and lots of hassle for lots and lots of people who operate across those borders.
          But with a hard brexit do we not default to the previously agreed backstop where uk has to be regulatorily aligned.
          Seven social sins: politics without principles, wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, and worship without sacrifice



          Comment


            Originally posted by Wallyman View Post

            That would cause a snap election right? What would people expect if that happened? Another hung parliament with the Tories even weaker, but Labour still a bit short of majority?
            Well with the fixed term parliament act it would require 2/3s of MP to vote for a GE. I don't see support for it at present - neither within parliament itself (turkeys don't vote for Christmas) nor with the general population.

            If it were to happen, Lib Dems would possibly be kingmakers.
            Please support Milford Hospice. Click here to donate.

            Comment


              Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post

              Well with the fixed term parliament act it would require 2/3s of MP to vote for a GE. I don't see support for it at present - neither within parliament itself (turkeys don't vote for Christmas) nor with the general population.

              If it were to happen, Lib Dems would possibly be kingmakers.
              Well if it is anything like the last election the torries will lose ten points in the campaign
              Seven social sins: politics without principles, wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, and worship without sacrifice



              Comment


                Astounding revelations from Open Democracy....

                ​​​​​​https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/bre...claiming-polit

                The Electoral Commission has ruled that Leave broke the law, and saw evidence of meetings with Russian officials, Banks in Russia discussing mining deals etc etc. The evidence was handed to the Met Police.


                The Met Police have admitted that they haven't investigated any of it. Further, they've cited "political sensitivities" as the reason for not doing so.



                Utterly ****ing jaw dropping.
                "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                Comment


                  n the wake of the Electoral Commission reports, in August a group of 70 cross-party MPs, peers and MEPs, wrote to Cressida Dick, the Met commissioner, and to the Director General of the National Crime Agency, Lynne Owens. The letter stated that the Electoral Commission had limited powers of investigation and sanctions, and had no powers to prosecute. It urged the Met and the NCA to “investigate these matters thoroughly and with urgency.”

                  Within two weeks the Met’s commander of Specialist Crime, Stuart Cundy, and the NCA’s Director of Intelligence, Steve Smart, had replied to the MPs. Cundy said that the commission’s evidence was “being assessed by the MPS in order to make an informed decision as to whether a criminal investigation is required.”

                  Smart told the MPs that the NCA was “working alongside the MPS” and was also in close contact with “other government bodies on these issues.” “No one should be surprised”

                  Two months on, the Met’s position on its investigations into the three Brexit organisations remains unchanged and appears to be going nowhere.

                  A senior Home Office source, close to the Home Secretary Sajid Javid, told openDemocracy: “No one should really be surprised that the Met have said there are political issues involved here. Of course there are. The Electoral Commission has done a thorough job. Fines have been made for the mistakes made. But we move on. We will soon know the shape of Brexit and maybe there are other issues that deserve our national attention more.”
                  "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                  "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                  "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                  Comment


                    I'd be stunned if any of that gained mainstream traction Balla. No one will care.
                    "It’s not the team you support, it’s the club you should support. The team on the pitch will ebb and flow because that’s the nature of sport. No team has ever been successful decade on decade. The club has the history and that’s the passion you should have."

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Jenta View Post
                      I'd be stunned if any of that gained mainstream traction Balla. No one will care.
                      True, but ****ing hell!

                      How banana republic can things get?

                      The police have been asked by Parliament to investigate evidence of a crime, and just haven't!!
                      "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                      "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                      "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by scotscor View Post

                        But with a hard brexit do we not default to the previously agreed backstop where uk has to be regulatorily aligned.

                        Isnt the backstop not actually agreed yet? Or not legally written and agreed upon?

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by scotscor View Post

                          But with a hard brexit do we not default to the previously agreed backstop where uk has to be regulatorily aligned.
                          The backstop is part of the draft deal. If there is no deal there is no backstop.

                          The EU and Dublin would be in a tough situation then. Legally there would be a need for immediate action to impose a border (just like Greece have with Turkey, or Poland with Belarus). Not imposing it would also be sold by the Brexit fanatics as evidence that this was never an issue but imposing it would have massive damage on Ireland - I hope Leo has negotiated a decent aid/solidarity package with Jean and co.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by AwayFromHome View Post

                            The backstop is part of the draft deal. If there is no deal there is no backstop.

                            The EU and Dublin would be in a tough situation then. Legally there would be a need for immediate action to impose a border (just like Greece have with Turkey, or Poland with Belarus). Not imposing it would also be sold by the Brexit fanatics as evidence that this was never an issue but imposing it would have massive damage on Ireland - I hope Leo has negotiated a decent aid/solidarity package with Jean and co.
                            There is also an onus on the British to impose a border if they want to trade under the fabled WTO terms.

                            So a case of who blinks first, I think.

                            https://www.politico.eu/article/phil...o-brexit-deal/
                            Please support Milford Hospice. Click here to donate.

                            Comment


                              If May agrees the backstop - then fair enough - she will be deserving of Leo's and Ireland's support.

                              The backstop (or variation thereof) will probably hold even if there is no deal.

                              I suspect Leo and May had the outline of the backstop agreed months ago - that's why May has danced around the subject of a regulatory border for months.

                              Have to say the whole Brexit show, although deadly serious in many respects, is absolutely fascinating.
                              ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

                              Originally Posted by mr chips
                              AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post
                                If May agrees the backstop - then fair enough - she will be deserving of Leo's and Ireland's support.

                                The backstop (or variation thereof) will probably hold even if there is no deal.

                                I suspect Leo and May had the outline of the backstop agreed months ago - that's why May has danced around the subject of a regulatory border for months.

                                Have to say the whole Brexit show, although deadly serious in many respects, is absolutely fascinating.
                                Then you don’t know how negotiations work between sovereign states. Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed is not just a platitude. It is a serious operating principle of diplomats. You have to move things in batches otherwise it’s unmanageble but if you don’t like what is happening in later batches you don’t have to remain committed to what was agreed in principle in earlier rounds.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X