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Collusion between British State and Loyalist Gangs

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    Collusion between British State and Loyalist Gangs

    Surprised there isnt a thread on this already given its seriousness.
    RTE documentary detailing collusion between RUC / British Army and loyalist murder squads shown last night.

    Good article on the IT with some of the facts.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/irela...orth-1.2250653

    The British government must face up to its responsibilities in the face of “overwhelming evidence of collusion”, a Northern Ireland victims’ group and a human rights organisation have said.
    The Pat Finucane Centre and the Justice for the Forgotten group made the call following the broadcast last night of an RTÉ Prime Time programme featuring several instances of alleged collusion involving the British army, MI5 and the RUC.
    The programme collated numerous cases where British state forces allegedly colluded with loyalist paramilitaries, going back to the 1970s and running right up to the late 1990s and early 2000s.
    It covered cases such as the Dublin-Monaghan bombings, which claimed 34 lives, the 1989 murder of Belfast solicitor Pat Finucane, the “Glennane Gang”, operating in Mid-Ulster during the 1970s, and the Mount Vernon UVF gang which was allegedly involved in numerous killings from the 1990s.
    It also follows on the recent BBC Panorama programme,Britain’s Secret Terror Deals, which examined the extent of British security force collusion with republican and loyalist paramilitaries.

    ‘Hundreds of deaths’
    In that programme the former Northern Ireland police ombudsman Baroness Nuala O’Loan said that “hundreds and hundreds” of deaths happened in Northern Ireland as a result of security force collusion. She made similar allegations on Monday’s RTÉ programme,Collusion.
    Both programmes also covered some of the ground of the book Lethal Allies, written by journalist Ann Cadwallader, which alleged that the Glennane gang of loyalist paramilitaries, RUC members and Ulster Defence Regiment soldiers killed up to 120 Catholics.
    The renewed focus on British state collusion comes as Taoiseach Enda Kenny is due to meet the British prime minister, David Cameron, in London on Thursday. That long-scheduled meeting is arranged to address matters such as the current political deadlock in Northern Ireland, economic matters and the British referendum on Europe.

    Legacy issues
    “Legacy issues” are also due to be discussed. This, it is understood, primarily relates to the Government seeking disclosure from the British of documents relating to the Dublin-Monaghan bombings. Last night’s programme may bring pressure to bear on Mr Kenny to more generally raise the issue of collusion.
    In last night’s programme, the former secretary general of the Department of Foreign Affairs, Seán Donlon, said a “certain pattern” tended to be followed in many cases of alleged British state collusion.
    “The initial British response at political level was denial. The second phase was usually cover-up and the last phase eventually was apology,” he told Prime Time. “But the apology, of course, never came in the lifetime of the administration which had been involved.”
    The Pat Finucane Centre and Justice for the Forgotten said that, as organisations working with the bereaved, they believed it essential to the process of truth and reconciliation “that London should face up to its responsibilities in the face of overwhelming evidence of collusion”.

    #2
    True, all these legacy issues should be out there,..


    Now, Gerry, tell us about your time as Belfast commander of the IRA ..
    Nulla semper amicus, servivit mihi, in iniuriam mihi neminem quem non persolvi

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Sulla View Post
      True, all these legacy issues should be out there,..


      Now, Gerry, tell us about your time as Belfast commander of the IRA ..
      Could you leave the Uncle Tom strawman bull**** outside please? This merits discussion and we could do without the usual whataboutery.
      "It’s not the team you support, it’s the club you should support. The team on the pitch will ebb and flow because that’s the nature of sport. No team has ever been successful decade on decade. The club has the history and that’s the passion you should have."

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Sulla View Post
        True, all these legacy issues should be out there,..


        Now, Gerry, tell us about your time as Belfast commander of the IRA ..
        Savage deflection attempt there. Why not deal with the thread as it stands and maybe open a hate SF/Gerry Adams one to deal with your issues in that respect?
        "Everything good about Ireland can be found in County Cork"....Lonely Planet Guide 2012

        Comment


          #5
          I see a new clique forming
          A lion online, a lamb at home.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by 5eight View Post
            I see a new clique forming
            What do they stand for or possibly not stand for?

            Comment


              #7
              Quick summary of it on thejournal.ie, foreign government collides to plant bombs in our country is a pretty serious event though not one bit of a surprise.

              All the talk a few weeks ago was of how good Prince Charles was to meet Adams after the IRA blowing up Mountbatten, how about him being the head of the paras who killed an unknown amount of people in this country?
              "Everything good about Ireland can be found in County Cork"....Lonely Planet Guide 2012

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Jenta View Post
                Could you leave the Uncle Tom strawman bull**** outside please? This merits discussion and we could do without the usual whataboutery.
                The legacy issues have to be dealt with together. That means the British Government has to acknowledge what they did (no surprise there) but also needs to be dealt with on the other side - the Irish government/State was not completely innocent either.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by The Last Stand View Post
                  The legacy issues have to be dealt with together. That means the British Government has to acknowledge what they did (no surprise there) but also needs to be dealt with on the other side - the Irish government/State was not completely innocent either.
                  And those who have designs to be part of the Irish government in the future must come clean too
                  Nulla semper amicus, servivit mihi, in iniuriam mihi neminem quem non persolvi

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Sulla View Post
                    And those who have designs to be part of the Irish government in the future must come clean too
                    I do not disagree.

                    Perhaps the openness is why Martin McGuinness is that little bit more respected given he has been honest about his past role.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Grandpasimpson View Post

                      All the talk a few weeks ago was of how good Prince Charles was to meet Adams after the IRA blowing up Mountbatten, how about him being the head of the paras who killed an unknown amount of people in this country?

                      Good point! As you quite rightly point out, HRH Prince Charles is Commander-in-Chief of the Paras, so presumably for reasons of military and diplomatic protocol he should have met the Commander-in-Chief of the IRA.

                      Unless of course ......................
                      New infraction avoidance policy: a post may be described as imbecilic, but its author should never be described as an imbecile.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Say it ain't so Champ.
                        Gwan Joe!!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by The Last Stand View Post
                          I do not disagree.

                          Perhaps the openness is why Martin McGuinness is that little bit more respected given he has been honest about his past role.
                          Do you really think Martin McGuinness left the IRA in 1974?

                          the only reason he can admit to IRA membership is because he served a sentence for it.

                          if Adams said "OK I admit it. I was in the 'RA" he would be charged with membership and looking down the barrel of a two year sentence.

                          Not going to happen.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Here's just one of the British state sanctioned murder squads that operated, reckoned to have killed 120 catholic civilians;

                            "The Glenanne gang or Glenanne group was a secret informal alliance of Ulster loyalists, mostly from Northern Ireland, who carried out shooting and bombing attacks against Catholics and nationalists during the Troubles, beginning in the 1970s.[1] Most of its attacks took place in the "murder triangle" area of counties Armagh and Tyrone.[2] It also launched some attacks elsewhere in Northern Ireland and in the Republic of Ireland. The gang included British soldiers from the Ulster Defence Regiment (UDR), police officers from the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC), and members of the Mid-Ulster Brigade of the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF).[3][4] Twenty-five British soldiers and police officers were named as purported members of the gang.[5] Details about the group have come from many sources, including the affidavit of former member and RUC officer John Weir; statements by other former members; police, army and court documents; and ballistics evidence linking the same weapons to various attacks. Since 2003, the group's activities have also been investigated by the 2006 Cassel Report, and three reports commissioned by Irish Supreme Court Justice Henry Barron, known as the Barron Reports.[6] A book focusing on the group's activities, Lethal Allies: British Collusion in Ireland, was published in 2013.[7] It drew on all the aforementioned sources, as well as Historical Enquiries Team investigations."

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Aren't we great, what with getting the Brits to admit to dirty practices, conducted in a very diry war. The truth is needed however, for history's sake at least.

                              Mr. Adams, strangely denies being a senior leader of the organisation that tortured people in the most vile manner (think about a 10mm drill-bit and a knee and that was just against their own!). The IRA skinned hunan beings to death, burned hundreds of others to a crisp in incendiary attacks.

                              The pornography from the seventies and eighties that I recall on my TV was watching policemen in Belfast shoveling up the remains of another Irish person's thorax after an explosion into a plastic bag. The madness of Summer '85 when the two soldiers were dragged, on live TV to their deaths.

                              To say that a form of genocide was practiced in the border counties against the rural Protestant community over a protracted period through the seventies and eighties is not too far from the truth.

                              I don't want to go against this interminable 'Peace Process' (aka Sunningale for Slow Learners) and I don't want it to fail. Far from it, if it delivers an absence of murder - indeed, by both sides, then absolutely, let's keep it's disfunctional ass on track... as long as there is no murder I suppose we will have to tolerate political illeterates like the DUP and SF.

                              But I won't forgive the thirty years of wasted opportunities to end that 'war'. The so-called war that should have ended in '74 but the gob****es on both sides couldn't see it.

                              That represents a full generation of healing - completely wasted. Imagine where we could be now if peace had happened in '74.

                              So, what do we have now In Northern Ireland?

                              An Assembly that can't agree on the colour of sh•t. An assembly that seems to stumble along only for short periods and then only when the best diplomats in the world are present and conducting the coereography for that bunch of stratified eejits.

                              Do people here seriously believe that SF can work effectivey in government in the south? Their record up north is less than encouraging.

                              I'll probably be in my grave before I would even consider even giving those c•nts my last transfer.
                              Last edited by NiallGK; 17th-June-2015, 03:40. Reason: sp + syntax
                              If your religion is worth killing for, please start with yourself.

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