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US Presidential Election - Indecision 2016

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    Originally posted by blackwarrior View Post
    I don't really get the "Sanders would have won bit" by some people. He wouldn't have attracted a single crossover Republican vote and would hardly have inspired centrist Democrats to come out. But the debates would have been fun.
    Trump would have inspired the centrist Democrats to turn out. And Sanders would have had a message for the constituency that Clinton couldn't connect with. He polled way ahead of Clinton vs Trump.

    Sanders is willing to talk about things like the erosion of jobs, the problems of globalisation, the squeeze on working Americans and all the rest. Clinton had no answers.
    "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

    "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


    "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

    Comment


      Dunno if Sanders would have been the answer, he isn't left by European standards but he is way too left for the USA.
      Commemorate Nevin Spence here -
      http://www.mycharity.ie/event/munste..._nevin_spence/

      Comment


        Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
        Trump would have inspired the centrist Democrats to turn out. And Sanders would have had a message for the constituency that Clinton couldn't connect with. He polled way ahead of Clinton vs Trump.

        Sanders is willing to talk about things like the erosion of jobs, the problems of globalisation, the squeeze on working Americans and all the rest. Clinton had no answers.
        But on aspects of suitability, temperament, qualifications, there was similar doubts compared with Trump imo. It would have been an amazing contest as a spectacle, but I disagree on whether centrist Democrats would have come out as you say. Who knows.

        Doesn't take away my shock. Currently in email conversation with my sister in Seattle, she's awake at 3am after a couple of hours bad sleep. At least I live over here.
        "I don't believe in fairytales," O'Connell once told me, "even though it feels like I've been lucky enough to live through a few. However it ends, I'll feel lucky."
        Donald McRae, Guardian Rugby, October 2015

        Comment


          Originally posted by blackwarrior View Post
          I stayed up till 3am, MI and WI tipping toward Trump, went to bed but couldn't sleep! Waking up to hear PA went red was stunning.

          Can't believe it's President Trump. What an obnoxious and rabble rousing individual. While I have no special liking for Clinton, her temperament and qualifications seemed an excellent match for the job.

          But I've realised that what upsets me most about her defeat is the chance of a female president gone for the foreseeable future.
          why is the gender of POTUS relevant? Surely their ability is more important. I get tired of men being the root of all of womens problems. 42% plus of women voted for Trump the pu**y grabber.
          A lion online, a lamb at home.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Jackie Brown View Post
            Dunno if Sanders would have been the answer, he isn't left by European standards but he is way too left for the USA.
            I don't know if Left and Right are the relevant dimensions here. The US just elected a Republican who is promising economic nationalism and restrictions on free trade.
            "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

            "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


            "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

            Comment


              Originally posted by 5eight View Post
              why is the gender of POTUS relevant? Surely their ability is more important. I get tired of men being the root of all of womens problems. 42% plus of women voted for Trump the pu**y grabber.
              I just said I was disappointed that a well qualified, experienced and superior candidate, who happened to be a woman, lost out. And I was most disappointed about the last bit. I didn't remotely suggest your sentence in bold!
              "I don't believe in fairytales," O'Connell once told me, "even though it feels like I've been lucky enough to live through a few. However it ends, I'll feel lucky."
              Donald McRae, Guardian Rugby, October 2015

              Comment


                Originally posted by 5eight View Post
                why is the gender of POTUS relevant? Surely their ability is more important. I get tired of men being the root of all of womens problems. 42% plus of women voted for Trump the pu**y grabber.

                It's relevant because they're into the mid 40's in number, and a whole 50% of the population have never produced ones. Even the people that were owned by other people a 150 or so years ago have produced a President now.

                And it's hard to countenance the notion that a system that's given us Nixon, Bush twice and now Trump is the way it is because it's a bastion of meritocracy.

                Does it mean that Clinton was qualified on that basis? No. But people are right to see the lack of a female president as emblematic of a widespread and unjust inequality, and entitled to want to see it corrected.
                "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                  It's relevant because they're into the mid 40's in number, and a whole 50% of the population have never produced ones. Even the people that were owned by other people a 150 or so years ago have produced a President now.

                  And it's hard to countenance the notion that a system that's given us Nixon, Bush twice and now Trump is the way it is because it's a bastion of meritocracy.

                  Does it mean that Clinton was qualified on that basis? No. But people are right to see the lack of a female president as emblematic of a widespread and unjust inequality, and entitled to want to see it corrected.
                  Clinton was by far the more experienced candidate, I wanted her to win. Women can't shout foul when such a large percentage did not vote for her.
                  A lion online, a lamb at home.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Viigand View Post
                    Although I'm obviously not a supporter of Trump, I do note that those of you on the left tend to paint those that don't agree with your views as 'stupid' or attach other such disparaging labels without taking the time to understand the other view and make a persuasive argument for your case.
                    Perhaps you should read my posts this morning where I said he was NOT stupid.

                    Those of you on the left was amusing too. First time I was ever associated with the left.

                    Comment


                      Women for Trump spokeswoman on RTE 1 now explaing why women voted for DT. Must say I agree with a lot of what she is saying.
                      A lion online, a lamb at home.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                        I don't know if Left and Right are the relevant dimensions here. The US just elected a Republican who is promising economic nationalism and restrictions on free trade.
                        Ok but he was regarded as a socialist, not a way to win an election in the US
                        Commemorate Nevin Spence here -
                        http://www.mycharity.ie/event/munste..._nevin_spence/

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by 5eight View Post
                          Clinton was by far the more experienced candidate, I wanted her to win. Women can't shout foul when such a large percentage did not vote for her.

                          Hmmm...interesting issue. The fact that a large percentage of any group are acquiescent or compliant in their oppression doesn't mean it's not oppression. So I think that women who recognise it for what it is can cry foul. Though I agree that they can't lay it all at the door of men.
                          "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                          "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                          "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                          Comment


                            How he squared being a billionaire to resonate with the rust belt unemployed man is beyond me
                            I am the million man.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Jackie Brown View Post
                              Ok but he was regarded as a socialist, not a way to win an election in the US
                              He very nearly won the one he fought. I know muscle memory is strong, but on the day that ****face Von Clownstick gets elected, I think it's reasonable to say that assumptions about the ways to win an election in the US might be up for re-consideration.
                              "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                              "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                              "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                              Comment


                                US Presidential Election - Indecision 2016

                                In my opinion this was not about Clinton as a woman. If the establishment thinks that then nothing will change. Trump managed to raise issues which connected with people. Clinton was portrayed as a Washington insider - they way she handled the emails and the way the party treated Sanders reinforced that view. It is similar to BREXIT - if an element of the media consistently say something about someone the mud will stick. Trump just told people what they wanted to hear, promised them what he cannot deliver and threw more mud on Clinton. Clinton, in turn, fell into the trap of attacking Trump rather than focus on policy and substance.

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