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    #46
    Originally posted by Jenta View Post
    You clearly were talking about it in terms of an incentive.

    What are the fairer and more efficient ways to ensure children don't get stuck in a poverty cycle?
    I am not convinced a poorly targeted measure like the children's allowance is.

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      #47
      There's always a bit o the cream gone sour t78...tis the heat down under
      So I walked as day was dawning
      Where small birds sang and leaves were falling
      Where we once watched the row boats landing
      By the broad majestic shannon

      Comment


        #48
        Originally posted by McCloud View Post
        Not to my knowledge PP birth rates are dropping as far as I know?
        Emigration is, sadly, a factor in Ireland in terms of population growth but I have seen figures showing the birth rate is going up in Ireland. It is beyond question that it is going through the roof in the UK, and I am contributing!!??!!!??

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          #49
          Originally posted by Cougar Moon View Post
          There's always a bit o the cream gone sour t78...tis the heat down under
          Remember two things: there's more than cream floats, and, by definition, a lot of the cream is just rich and thick.
          Ceterum censeo INM irrumandum esse.

          Comment


            #50
            Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post
            But birth rates are accelerating, BB, in Ireland and the UK.
            It's gone up over the last few years, all right, largely down to an influx of young immigrant families from within the EU.

            But that's a blip in a decades long reduction that has seen an rapidly ageing population.
            "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

            "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


            "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

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              #51
              Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
              It's gone up over the last few years, all right, largely down to an influx of young immigrant families from within the EU.

              But that's a blip in a decades long reduction that has seen an rapidly ageing population.
              Untrue, actually; birth rates crashed in the '80s and '90s, but are back up to the levels of the '70s now. The population is aging not least in part because people aren't dying as young any more.
              Ceterum censeo INM irrumandum esse.

              Comment


                #52
                Originally posted by Cougar Moon View Post
                Perhaps we could start by looking at the theft of monies facillitated by successive irish governments for the benefit of the likes of google etc
                Yep, take for example timothy geithner who was US treasury secretary up to 2013 doing his level best to ensure that irish taxpayers paid for bondholders private losses.

                Then look at the massive subsidies US companies get in ireland.

                I've asked this question on here before - how much dough is given by the IDA and other state bodies to US companies?
                Plus the amount of tax lost to these massive corporations through under the table tax deals.

                Now what if instead of giving countless billions to foreign companies indigenous irish companies and irish entrepreneurs were funded instead?

                Comment


                  #53
                  Originally posted by Thomond78 View Post
                  Untrue, actually; birth rates crashed in the '80s and '90s, but are back up to the levels of the '70s now. The population is aging not least in part because people aren't dying as young any more.
                  So decades of reduction followed by a recovery in recent years. The birth rate in the UK is falling again since 13/14. It's been plausibly argued as well that the baby boom of the last ten years in the UK was a distortion caused not by overall increases, but by the fact that women are having babies later, a phenomenon that pushed a lot of 90s births into the 2000s as women waited until their early 30s.

                  The overall trend is fairly flat, though, compared to most of the world. We are alone because of living longer, but we're also older because the first generation to catch those benefits were the baby boomers, who were a very real baby boom.

                  Interesting article from the Economist in July. Also suggests that births are slowing in immigrant families, which you'd expect over time. I'm not convinced by their arguments on the restriction of welfare, but a bit more amenable to the idea that general precariousness of employment and housing is impacting things. Highly anecdotal, but we stopped at one for those reasons.

                  http://www.economist.com/blogs/bligh...ins-birth-rate
                  "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                  "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                  "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Mother can live with paedophile 'as she locks two daughters in bedroom at night'
                    Social workers in Devon approve 'safety plan' said to also include fact the woman's husband would have to climb over her in bed and wake her up to get to girls
                    A mother of two young children has reportedly been allowed to live with a convicted paedophile because she locks her daughters inside an alarmed bedroom at night.

                    Social workers in Devon have approved a "safety plan" that is said to also include the fact the woman's husband, once jailed for attacking a child under 13, would have to climb over her in bed and wake her up to get to the girls.

                    Officials are also reported to be happy that the children could contact their mother using a baby monitor if they needed to get out in the middle of the night.

                    The grandmother of the children, who cannot be named for legal reasons, has criticised the fact the child abuser could move in just months after he was described by social workers as a “continuing risk”
                    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... night.html
                    clowns

                    Comment


                      #55
                      :-o :-o :-o :-o
                      "Everything good about Ireland can be found in County Cork"....Lonely Planet Guide 2012

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Originally posted by Jenta View Post
                        You clearly were talking about it in terms of an incentive.

                        What are the fairer and more efficient ways to ensure children don't get stuck in a poverty cycle?
                        You could say take the entire budget for CA and use it to fund a free school meals, free school books system and then put what is left over into Resource Teaching. I'd go further btw and disincentivise procreation after say 3 kids via the tax/welfare system.

                        I guess my general point is that outside of providing a social net re welfare the state shouldn't be involved other than in areas where it provides services because of critical mass (roads, health etc).
                        I believe that all government is evil, and that trying to improve it is largely a waste of time.
                        HL Mencken

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                          #57
                          Why disincetivise/
                          clowns

                          Comment


                            #58
                            Originally posted by barleys chinos View Post
                            Why disincetivise/
                            Too many in the world already, climate change, limited resources etc
                            We can import labour and in so doing ameliorate global suffering, folks dying in the Med etc.
                            We could probably give back some of the money saved in a tax cut.
                            I believe that all government is evil, and that trying to improve it is largely a waste of time.
                            HL Mencken

                            Comment


                              #59
                              Originally posted by Eamo View Post
                              Too many in the world already, climate change, limited resources etc
                              We can import labour and in so doing ameliorate global suffering, folks dying in the Med etc.
                              We could probably give back some of the money saved in a tax cut.
                              Ya that would be great,how would you implement it.
                              What bills would need to be passed laws changed etc etc
                              clowns

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                                So decades of reduction followed by a recovery in recent years. The birth rate in the UK is falling again since 13/14. It's been plausibly argued as well that the baby boom of the last ten years in the UK was a distortion caused not by overall increases, but by the fact that women are having babies later, a phenomenon that pushed a lot of 90s births into the 2000s as women waited until their early 30s.

                                The overall trend is fairly flat, though, compared to most of the world. We are alone because of living longer, but we're also older because the first generation to catch those benefits were the baby boomers, who were a very real baby boom.

                                Interesting article from the Economist in July. Also suggests that births are slowing in immigrant families, which you'd expect over time. I'm not convinced by their arguments on the restriction of welfare, but a bit more amenable to the idea that general precariousness of employment and housing is impacting things. Highly anecdotal, but we stopped at one for those reasons.

                                http://www.economist.com/blogs/bligh...ins-birth-rate
                                I realise this is anecdotal evidence, but I see significant numbers of young immigrant families here in north county dublin. Amongst my Irish-born acquaintances, most of their kids wait until late 20 s or more often early 30 s to have babies. But amongst my Polish acquaintances, having babies at 21 & 22 seems to be very commonplace. These are well-educated young people, not layabouts who never intend to work. Speaking to one mum about her son's impending fatherhood at age 22, she said just that her kids are in relationships and in their family and region in Poland it was the norm to have babies young. And because African immigrants are so visible here, it is easy to observe that there are lots of very young families of 4 kids around the area.

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