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    Peaceful protest ?

    Looking at clips of the gardai shoving folk about at a water meter protest in Dublin i ask myself "What is a peaceful protest ??" What rights do you really have in trying to protest peacefully ? How are the Gardai suppose to react to a "peaceful protest" if a group of people are preventing others from carrying out their work.

    #2
    Interesting piece by Gene Kerrigan over the weekend about this issue, the Gardai have as much responsibility to ensure people can protest peacefully as they do to quell any unpeaceful acts.
    "Everything good about Ireland can be found in County Cork"....Lonely Planet Guide 2012

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      #3
      Realistically in Europe in the 21st century you have no real rights of protest. You have rights of assembly (usually under license for demonstrations) but a demonstration is not a protest.

      Much of Gandhi's non-violent resistance and King's civil disobedience would get you (legally) maced by the paramilitary wing of the state in most European countries in 2014.

      And many people have been happy to cheerlead that rise in authoritarianism, oblivious to the fact that one day their govts would give years of their earnings to anonymous global capitalists and then send in the riot police when they dared to sit somewhere peacefully complaining about it.
      "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

      "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


      "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
        Realistically in Europe in the 21st century you have no real rights of protest. You have rights of assembly (usually under license for demonstrations) but a demonstration is not a protest.

        Much of Gandhi's non-violent resistance and King's civil disobedience would get you (legally) maced by the paramilitary wing of the state in most European countries in 2014.

        And many people have been happy to cheerlead that rise in authoritarianism, oblivious to the fact that one day their govts would give years of their earnings to anonymous global capitalists and then send in the riot police when they dared to sit somewhere peacefully complaining about it.
        More powers to Authorities please, it keeps the terrorists out.
        The whole world cries out peace, freedom and a few less fat bastards eating all the pie.

        Comment


          #5
          The amount of people who think they can just ignore this new tax is staggering, why is this any different to road tax or income tax? I mean we used to get our bins collected for free but then we had to pay and its just become accepted. People trying to prevent a man from doing his days work by installing a meter are just louts though
          My computer thinks I'm gay
          What's the difference anyway
          When all the people do all day
          Is stare into a phone

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by leftwinger View Post
            Looking at clips of the gardai shoving folk about at a water meter protest in Dublin i ask myself "What is a peaceful protest ??" What rights do you really have in trying to protest peacefully ? How are the Gardai suppose to react to a "peaceful protest" if a group of people are preventing others from carrying out their work.
            Gardai are just putting into practice what they've been doing in west Mayo for years, which is working with private firms to keep the citizens in line and getting overtime plus expenses for their trouble. Objecting to having your children videotaped by private security people while playing on the local beach could get you into trouble with the gardai.

            Balla is correct, you have no right to protest and whatever rights your think you may have will vanish once you try to assert them.

            Your state is there to vindicate your rights, but to enable others to override them.
            Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2019.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by sewa View Post
              The amount of people who think they can just ignore this new tax is staggering, why is this any different to road tax or income tax? I mean we used to get our bins collected for free but then we had to pay and its just become accepted. People trying to prevent a man from doing his days work by installing a meter are just louts though
              Water charges were abolished in this country in the late 1970s. The money then came from general taxation which rose to accommodate the extra demand placed upon it. People in rural areas paid their taxes and in addition paid for rural water schemes or paid for private wells.

              So no it's not like road tax or income tax.
              Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2019.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by sewa View Post
                The amount of people who think they can just ignore this new tax is staggering, why is this any different to road tax or income tax? I mean we used to get our bins collected for free but then we had to pay and its just become accepted. People trying to prevent a man from doing his days work by installing a meter are just louts though
                The English tried not paying the Poll Tax and pretty much nothing happened.

                They gathered en mass in Trafalgar Square to protest peacefully and they were charged by police horses and batoned.

                They smashed the **** out of Trafalgar Square and nearly brought down the government and the Poll Tax went away.

                Unfortunately, "louts" (or at least the spectre of them) have been responsible for a lot more change than tutters and fretters combined.

                A law with no democratic mandate and no support from the citizenry cannot be imposed on them against their will, surely?

                What right does a government have to do that?
                "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by MunsterTel View Post
                  More powers to Authorities please, it keeps the terrorists out.
                  And the Ebola. We'll need more powers to keep a lid on that.
                  "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                  "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                  "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                    And the Ebola. We'll need more powers to keep a lid on that.
                    Abowla what?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Someone has to pay taxes for services, they try and get the mix between direct and indirect but it isn't easy. You can guarantee the same people will be out protesting when local schools and hospitals have to close because of insufficient tax being collected. Before anyone says you are being hypocritical this tax is an indirect one and therefore will be one I pay for the household, the alternative is a change in income tax instead would have no impact on me
                      My computer thinks I'm gay
                      What's the difference anyway
                      When all the people do all day
                      Is stare into a phone

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by sewa View Post
                        Someone has to pay taxes for services, they try and get the mix between direct and indirect but it isn't easy. You can guarantee the same people will be out protesting when local schools and hospitals have to close because of insufficient tax being collected. Before anyone says you are being hypocritical this tax is an indirect one and therefore will be one I pay for the household, the alternative is a change in income tax instead would have no impact on me
                        Agreed, but taxation has to be based on consent.

                        Christ. I sound like Eamo
                        "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                        "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                        "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                          Agreed, but taxation has to be based on consent.

                          Christ. I sound like Eamo
                          If it was based on consent, then there would be very little tax collected.
                          What I don't get it the 'we don't have a contract with IW' argument. I don't have a contract with An Post or RTE, but I still have to pay my TV licence.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            If the new tax is ring fenced and used to improve the quality of drinking water and the mains infrastructure that provides drinking water then, aside from larger arguments around wealth tax, I can't say I have a huge problem with it.

                            But if it's being used to pay off failed gamblers before the company and all the information it possesses is sold off to Denis O'Brien for 2 shillings and 6 pence then that's a problem.
                            "It’s not the team you support, it’s the club you should support. The team on the pitch will ebb and flow because that’s the nature of sport. No team has ever been successful decade on decade. The club has the history and that’s the passion you should have."

                            Comment


                              #15
                              ah we've missed the boat on protesting it. should have turned every tap on in every house as soon as it was suggested. sure what would they do turn the water off.....
                              "Some people don't know their easy lives... I wouldn't be so ungrateful" - Fiacre Ryan - #AutismAndMe

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