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Budget 2014: Prepare To Be Astounded

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    Can anyone tell me what impact if any this budget had on, say, a couple who are earning maybe 100k each/ 200k between them? How did it effect your average scobie family and living fully off the state? How did it effect farmers being paid to farm non-profit making farms? How did it impact on public sector pension recipients who retired before 60 and have a guaranteed income for the rest of their lives? Nothing that I can see.

    The entire "adjustment" of the past few years has been done in such a way that by far and away the bulk of the pressure was put on middle Ireland. At one end, nothing is being put on higher earners. At the other end, nothing has been done to sort out the biggest leech on the public finances, the welfare system and public servant pensions.

    Taxes on fuel, taxes on goods, raising the cost of third level and education in general, rapidly rising health insurance for those that can squeeze enough to afford it, the list goes on. No free health care system or third level education despite paying taxes that merit it. I actually agree with the property tax in principal, but the manner/context it was brought in it just added to one more thing to the list for the middle class to carry on their backs while those either side of them don't need to worry about. And what we've seen now is that if you've children or family with severe illness and disability and you're part of middle Ireland, well **** you you're on your own.

    The biggest problem with all that is that it's middle Ireland grows the job market and drives a successful economy. We're crucifying the part of society that pays the bills and creates jobs for people.

    There is a lot of talk about a new party being needed, but what we seem to be getting is right wing nut jobs like Ganley, or left wing nut jobs like Democracy matters. If a new party started up and promised to take the pressure off middle Ireland and put it on high earners, our overgrown welfare system, public sector pension recipients and efficiencies in the overall public sector, they would be voted in in the morning and this country would be back on it's feet a lot sooner.
    "There are probably more annoying things than being hectored about African development by a wealthy Irish rock star in a cowboy hat, but I can't think of one at the moment"

    Paul Theroux

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      Nice rant busby, complete tosh, but good for a laugh
      My computer thinks I'm gay
      What's the difference anyway
      When all the people do all day
      Is stare into a phone

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        Originally posted by Eamo View Post
        Rather than cut dole for recent graduates (and encourage emigration of young educated folks) it should be cut for those in receipt of it for a long uninterrupted period (say 5 years) and cut on a sliding scale to discourage a welfare lifestyle. Ditto for other social supports.
        I think that France has something like this model?
        Con Artist

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          Originally posted by sewa View Post
          Nice rant busby, complete tosh, but good for a laugh
          Says the man who bases his economic predictions on how busy he thinks the traffic is.

          By the way, I'm hearing breakfast rolls are flying out the door these days, that's probably number one of your economic crystal ball calculator.
          "There are probably more annoying things than being hectored about African development by a wealthy Irish rock star in a cowboy hat, but I can't think of one at the moment"

          Paul Theroux

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            Originally posted by Valencia View Post
            I think that France has something like this model?
            Bar buying into the notion that reducing welfare payments "encourages" people into work.

            It has a system where you're paid a percentage of your last salary, and that eventually reduces to a standard welfare payment.
            "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

            "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


            "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

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              Originally posted by Valencia View Post
              I think that France has something like this model?
              A lot of European Countries have a system where what you get when you sign on is based on what you were earning over a length of time/ what social insurance you were paying. You can start claiming back close to what you were earning when you first sign on, and this slides down to a standard base rate over a number of months. Would make total sense.
              "There are probably more annoying things than being hectored about African development by a wealthy Irish rock star in a cowboy hat, but I can't think of one at the moment"

              Paul Theroux

              Comment


                Originally posted by busby View Post
                A lot of European Countries have a system where what you get when you sign on is based on what you were earning over a length of time/ what social insurance you were paying. You can start claiming back close to what you were earning when you first sign on, and this slides down to a standard base rate over a number of months. Would make total sense.
                They pay for it though. Around 6% of income was the figure I heard for the French scheme. Not an inconsiderable sum if you go through your life without claiming.
                "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                  They pay for it though. Around 6% of income was the figure I heard for the French scheme. Not an inconsiderable sum if you go through your life without claiming.
                  Well, it is technically insurance. It would be no different to insuring you're house for 50 years and it never getting flooded/burning down. You're paying for the security of it too. When you look at what proportion of our tax take is going on Social Welfare I don't think we're too far off the 6% figure ourselves. Perhaps if you didn't claim throughout your working life you could use it as credit for your pension.

                  Generally, I'd be in favour of a better "get what you pay for" approach to social insurance in particular. There is a very poor mentality in Ireland around paying tax, probably one of the worst in the western world I would say, certainly in Europe. If there was a tangible benefit to paying more social insurance, it might encourage black market workers or people not declaring earnings to declare earnings and pay into it. It's a fairer approach.
                  "There are probably more annoying things than being hectored about African development by a wealthy Irish rock star in a cowboy hat, but I can't think of one at the moment"

                  Paul Theroux

                  Comment


                    It's selling it at the polling booth though. It would be a sensible policy, as would running govt surplus. Neither is going to get anyone elected.
                    "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                    "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                    "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                      It's selling it at the polling booth though. It would be a sensible policy, as would running govt surplus. Neither is going to get anyone elected.
                      But we have PRSI which is meant to be Pay Related Social Insurance.

                      When it started out benefits were related to your pay up to a limit if I recall correctly. However over time all benefits have become flat rate. These days only what you pay is related to what you earn.

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                        Originally posted by glorob View Post
                        But we have PRSI which is meant to be Pay Related Social Insurance.

                        When it started out benefits were related to your pay up to a limit if I recall correctly. However over time all benefits have become flat rate. These days only what you pay is related to what you earn.
                        True, but the contribution required for a 70-80% salary return is well beyond what most people invest in that sort of protection.
                        "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                        "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                        "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                        Comment


                          A few Frenchies that I know think it is widely abused e.g. if you are a tradesman, work for 9 months and then claim your 3 months at 90% of your previous wage.

                          Apparently some people do it year after year ....
                          Please support Milford Hospice. Click here to donate.

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                            Originally posted by busby View Post
                            There is a very poor mentality in Ireland around paying tax, probably one of the worst in the western world I would say, certainly in Europe.
                            The Greeks might have a thing or two to say about that.....

                            I think the poor attitude to tax is because so much of it is wasted, "better in my pocket because the government will just piss it away/pay bondholders"
                            "If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards - checkmate!" Zapp Brannigan

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                              Originally posted by glorob View Post
                              But we have PRSI which is meant to be Pay Related Social Insurance....

                              Supposed to be is right. It's just another form of tax, as is the USC.
                              Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
                              Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork!

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                                Originally posted by busby View Post
                                Says the man who bases his economic predictions on how busy he thinks the traffic is.

                                By the way, I'm hearing breakfast rolls are flying out the door these days, that's probably number one of your economic crystal ball calculator.
                                Yeah, lets destroy the successful people who create jobs, great idea, unfortunately Ireland is already doing this very, very successfully
                                My computer thinks I'm gay
                                What's the difference anyway
                                When all the people do all day
                                Is stare into a phone

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