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Zanu-PF Do it Again!

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    Zanu-PF Do it Again!

    Remember way back when the Chinese Politburo was decried in the west as being a bunch of seventy and eighty year old fossils.

    Well, Mr. Robert Mugabe’s Zanu-PF party has won two-thirds of the seats in the Zimbabwe elections (presidential election results are yet to be announced).

    So a soon-to-be 90 year-old will run the country for another term (his eleventh one).

    Obviously, wisdom prevailed. I mean, it’s patiently intuitive that a 90 year-old president with a Zanu-PF crony prime minister acting as his henchmen, should run the country. Yeah, it’s the obvious choice.

    Is this collective madness or a massive corruption of process?
    If your religion is worth killing for, please start with yourself.

    #2
    There are116,000 people on the electoral roll over the age of 100; sure it makes sense to have someone close to their age as president!?!?

    Comment


      #3
      Bit of both I'd say, Niall. The opposition seems to have been fragmented or bought off, and there's no doubt that in a lot of instances votes aren't being used freely.

      But (and I don't say this to excuse his terrible conduct) it's also the case that Mugabe is seen by many as the father of the nation. He's their Dev, and his party has a similar status to the ANC in SA.

      Someone looking at Ireland might wonder why we cleave to two civil war parties that have never delivered a good govt between them.

      The mythology of nation building exerts a fairly strong grip.
      "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

      "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


      "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
        Bit of both I'd say, Niall. The opposition seems to have been fragmented or bought off, and there's no doubt that in a lot of instances votes aren't being used freely.

        But (and I don't say this to excuse his terrible conduct) it's also the case that Mugabe is seen by many as the father of the nation. He's their Dev, and his party has a similar status to the ANC in SA.

        Someone looking at Ireland might wonder why we cleave to two civil war parties that have never delivered a good govt between them.

        The mythology of nation building exerts a fairly strong grip.
        Zuma has welcomed the result so all is well in the world.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
          Bit of both I'd say, Niall. The opposition seems to have been fragmented or bought off, and there's no doubt that in a lot of instances votes aren't being used freely.

          But (and I don't say this to excuse his terrible conduct) it's also the case that Mugabe is seen by many as the father of the nation. He's their Dev, and his party has a similar status to the ANC in SA.

          Someone looking at Ireland might wonder why we cleave to two civil war parties that have never delivered a good govt between them.

          The mythology of nation building exerts a fairly strong grip.
          thing is when you beat, burn and shoot anyone who disagrees and throw other people's property to those who support you it can't be that difficult to get votes really
          \"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Evil Omer View Post
            thing is when you beat, burn and shoot anyone who disagrees and throw other people's property to those who support you it can't be that difficult to get votes really
            I'm not sure it's as simple as that though. He's clearly off his head, and has been utterly brutal, but the interesting question (for me anyway) is why such leaders seem to retain support regardless.

            Saddam Hussein still had a lot of people willing to support his regime. Mubarak in Egypt as well. And not all people who'd benefitted directly.

            Whether we like to accept it in the west or not, people (Europeans included) have a long history of giving their support to unpleasant, undemocratic and blood thirsty regimes. Spain, Greece, Portugal have all been ruled by military dictatorships in our lifetimes. The "communist" dictators in Eastern Europe had real support.

            I think it's quite possible that Mugabe would win a free and fair election in Zimbabwe
            "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

            "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


            "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
              I'm not sure it's as simple as that though. He's clearly off his head, and has been utterly brutal, but the interesting question (for me anyway) is why such leaders seem to retain support regardless.

              Saddam Hussein still had a lot of people willing to support his regime. Mubarak in Egypt as well. And not all people who'd benefitted directly.

              Whether we like to accept it in the west or not, people (Europeans included) have a long history of giving their support to unpleasant, undemocratic and blood thirsty regimes. Spain, Greece, Portugal have all been ruled by military dictatorships in our lifetimes. The "communist" dictators in Eastern Europe had real support.

              I think it's quite possible that Mugabe would win a free and fair election in Zimbabwe
              I don't think we will ever find out. The only way Mugabe will be extracted from power is via a box hopefully sooner rather than later.

              Comment


                #8
                T. I. A.
                When things go wrong, blame McGahan

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                  I'm not sure it's as simple as that though. He's clearly off his head, and has been utterly brutal, but the interesting question (for me anyway) is why such leaders seem to retain support regardless.

                  Saddam Hussein still had a lot of people willing to support his regime. Mubarak in Egypt as well. And not all people who'd benefitted directly.

                  Whether we like to accept it in the west or not, people (Europeans included) have a long history of giving their support to unpleasant, undemocratic and blood thirsty regimes. Spain, Greece, Portugal have all been ruled by military dictatorships in our lifetimes. The "communist" dictators in Eastern Europe had real support.

                  I think it's quite possible that Mugabe would win a free and fair election in Zimbabwe
                  segmented societies tend to produce that though, Iraq's support for Saddam was overwhelmingly in areas that shared his background and they did benefit in some ways from it, even if just that they didn't get gassed the way others did. Also it depends what you mean by support. For example the rejection of the western invasion of Iraq shouldn't be automatically taken as support for Sadam. For example if there was an FF government in Ireland and the Germans invaded to push it out, would everyone who resisted that invasion be an FF supporter?

                  Also we have to be careful claiming high levels of support for those dictatorships because there aren't free elections to prove it. It is known Mugabe's elections are more of a con than Dubya's Florida "win". He has won portions of the electorate that the figures of observers pre announcement of victory showed he wasn't possibly within an asses roar of. There has been a point where people have looked at the figures and just said he's making them up.
                  Last edited by Evil Omer; 4th-August-2013, 16:22.
                  \"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I'd agree on the whole, EO. I just think we have a way in the west of filtering out the sizeable portions of support that these types command in their own countries. Mugabe remains very popular in large chunks of Zimbabwean society.

                    Obviously, he's not going to allow us to work out precisely how popular, but he remains ensconced in a continent where Head of State is not often a job for life.
                    "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                    "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                    "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I must confess to be somewhat befuddled by the election result. Obviously, there were lots of vote rigging instances but I'd imagine Mugabe possibly shaded it.

                      What does it say when a population elect a President who has failed spectacularly over the past 10 years (I'm being generous here).

                      Robert Mugabe IMO. single-handedly destroyed the economy of Zimbabwe, brought the kind of hyper-inflation to the country that even Germany in the 1920's didn't experience.

                      Worse though, has been his handling of the issue of land ownership. The results have been nothing short of catastrophic. Instead of reform, he brought criminality and even murder.

                      I'm no cheerleader for the big white farmers on 30,000 hectares but what Mugabe achieved was a collapse of agricultural output in the richest arable lands in Africa.

                      Adulation? Perhaps. Fear? Certainly.



                      Balla - At least here, we had the freedom to dump the failed Zanu-FF shower out on their arses.
                      If your religion is worth killing for, please start with yourself.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        We did, Niall, but we weren't voting out the first generation.

                        I think Mugabe's residual power in Zimbabwe is massively tied to his role in winning independence.

                        I think you'd find more of a parallel with people's views of de Valera and Collins, even now.
                        "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                        "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                        "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                        Comment


                          #13
                          They didn't elect him. It was massive voter fraud, the same as the last couple of elections. He has ruined the country. Hope SA doesn't go the same way eventually.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Viigand View Post
                            They didn't elect him. It was massive voter fraud, the same as the last couple of elections. He has ruined the country. Hope SA doesn't go the same way eventually.
                            I think that's simplistic, and a couple of years out of date. They have one of the highest economic growth rates in Africa, and male life expectancy has risen consistently.

                            At least three separate international agencies have vouched for the fairness of the elections.

                            The picture is more complex than we want it to be.

                            A good insight here:

                            http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ection-zanu-pf
                            "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                            "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                            "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Smells distinctly of Biafra to me.

                              Comment

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