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Maggie Thatcher has died

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  • Sulla
    replied
    One for Eamo

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  • munster by marriage
    replied
    Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post
    Its 4 weeks for a spot my local crematorium.

    I've told herself that when my time comes to build a bonfire at the bottom of the garden.
    I don't think mine is going to wait for my time to come.

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  • fitzy73
    replied
    Originally posted by munster by marriage View Post
    Here in London you are lucky to get a burial within 2 weeks.
    Its 4 weeks for a spot my local crematorium.

    I've told herself that when my time comes to build a bonfire at the bottom of the garden.

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  • munster by marriage
    replied
    Originally posted by isola ciarrai View Post
    And this invalidates the rest of my post - MT was not some bizzare incubus who sprung fully formed to grab the body politic but an extreme reaction by many even outside the right wing to circumstances they observed. I did not even mention the strike at Westmister Hospital. To portray MT as many do here as some strange outsider is to underestimate the wave she rode to power, in three elections. Thatcherism was/is the expression of a selfish and self centred way of viewing the world, which prevails today as seemingly the 'only modern competitive way', but she expressed it, and did not solely form it. The problem with leftist militant strikes was that it helped her and her tendency within the Tory Party (Sir Keith Joseph, Airey Nieve and co) to kill off the centrist One Nation Tories who could at least conceive of a world where dog did not eat dog.
    Just have a read of Andy Beckett, or Dominic Sandbrook. In May 1975, legendary US political commentator, Eric Savareid said on CBS News, the 'liberal' network, that: ' Britain is drifting slowly into a condition of ungovernability' - the people and organisations who caused this were partly creators of Thatcher.
    I wasn't trying to invalidate the rest of your post - which is why I only quoted the gravedigger part.
    I'm just saying it's not the best example.

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  • rathbaner
    replied
    In the UK, your body becomes the property of the state when you die. Strange but there you are.

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  • munster by marriage
    replied
    Originally posted by isola ciarrai View Post
    BTW, even in a limited way, two weeks awaiting a burial, for a bereaved family, was no joke.
    Here in London you are lucky to get a burial within 2 weeks.

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  • isola ciarrai
    replied
    Originally posted by munster by marriage View Post
    "the dead piled up in morgues because the gravediggers were out"

    It was a 2 week wild cat strike in a couple of areas. It's always dredged up as an example of unions out of control. I was on a wildcat strike in 1998!
    Always hated Thatcher. But hate Thatcherism more. And that is still alive and well.
    BTW, even in a limited way, two weeks awaiting a burial, for a bereaved family, was no joke.

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  • isola ciarrai
    replied
    Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post
    Surely that Muppet was sectioned over his marathon intrusion.
    Sadly no, Fitzy - saw him 'dancing' at the corner of Trafalgar Square near the National Gallery (?) St Patricks Day, 3 years ago.
    And, yes, he is a fellow Kerryman, and allowing him at liberty is doing him no favours, but that's 'Care in the Community' for you, eh?

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  • isola ciarrai
    replied
    Originally posted by munster by marriage View Post
    "the dead piled up in morgues because the gravediggers were out"

    It was a 2 week wild cat strike in a couple of areas. It's always dredged up as an example of unions out of control. I was on a wildcat strike in 1998!
    Always hated Thatcher. But hate Thatcherism more. And that is still alive and well.
    And this invalidates the rest of my post - MT was not some bizzare incubus who sprung fully formed to grab the body politic but an extreme reaction by many even outside the right wing to circumstances they observed. I did not even mention the strike at Westmister Hospital. To portray MT as many do here as some strange outsider is to underestimate the wave she rode to power, in three elections. Thatcherism was/is the expression of a selfish and self centred way of viewing the world, which prevails today as seemingly the 'only modern competitive way', but she expressed it, and did not solely form it. The problem with leftist militant strikes was that it helped her and her tendency within the Tory Party (Sir Keith Joseph, Airey Nieve and co) to kill off the centrist One Nation Tories who could at least conceive of a world where dog did not eat dog.
    Just have a read of Andy Beckett, or Dominic Sandbrook. In May 1975, legendary US political commentator, Eric Savareid said on CBS News, the 'liberal' network, that: ' Britain is drifting slowly into a condition of ungovernability' - the people and organisations who caused this were partly creators of Thatcher.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Word Is Born
    replied

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  • munster by marriage
    replied
    "the dead piled up in morgues because the gravediggers were out"

    It was a 2 week wild cat strike in a couple of areas. It's always dredged up as an example of unions out of control. I was on a wildcat strike in 1998!
    Always hated Thatcher. But hate Thatcherism more. And that is still alive and well.

    Leave a comment:


  • busby
    replied
    Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post
    That is what I am saying though.
    Directed more at the "what an embarresment to the country" crew that rip him to bits. We all know a few lads in the same state of mind. Others say for the men in the white coats to come and take him off but not a fan that either. My grandfather had a good line about people like Horan: "In our day we used just say they were a bit quare and leave them off".

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  • isola ciarrai
    replied
    I do not like the Tories and certainly did not like MT, but a modicum of historical perspective is needed. Thatcher did not spring fully formed and ready to fight trade unions without any agenda, other than hatred of the unionised working classes, and elected by deluded middle and upper classes who shared her hatred. She had a huge following, not by any means a majority, in the working class also. Her election was a reaction to the chronically strike ridden and union swaggering power plays of the 1970s which rendered one Labour PM emasculated (Wilson), one Labour PM powerless and floundering (Callaghan), one would be Labour PM running to the IMF for handouts, long before it became common (Denis Healey) and one Tory PM out of power (Heath). The politically motivated strikes of the 1970s annoyed and worried British people of all classes, when union leaders openly declared that they were about getting rid of governments. they didn't like. It was a time when PM Wilson said to Hugh Scanlon, head of AUEW, ‘Hughie, get your tanks off my lawn’; when the Social Democratic Alliance, a pressure group within the Labour party (not the Tories) declared of Jack Jones, of TGWU, that ‘he was a dedicated opponent of Western Parliamentary democracy’; when Mick McGahey of Scottish NUM was a member of the ruling committee of the Communist Party; when Scargill left the CP because of its stifling orthodoxy and insufficient militancy, and formed a free floating band of extreme leftists, dedicated to achieving political ends through industrial action…..the list goes on. This all culminated in the so called Winter of Discontent, when almost all public utilities and organisations in Britain were on strike and the dead piled up in morgues because the gravediggers were out, and as Andy Beckett titled his excellent book on this period, ‘When the Lights Went Out’.
    Any assessment of the MT era can only be comprehended in the light of the 1970s, and a reading of this book by Beckett would be useful for those who see MT as some alien form who took over the Tory party and mindlessly destroyed British industry because of spite. Beckett is no right wing hack (he is with The Guardian) and his book has been praised Ken Livingstone and David Peace, hardly conservatives. It lays out clearly that politics was subject to extra-parliamentary powers and that her election was in large part a reaction to that. She could easily and successfully defeat Labour by having her posters say ‘Labour isn’t Working’. For those who derided the British government for failing to defy the Ulster Workers Council strike against Sunningdale, it is useful to recall that that government could not control the political power of the unions on the mainland, and that includes those mainland union leaders who condemned the Ulster strikes – as Glen Barr of UWC memorably said, why should they not try to achieve political ends by striking when the main UK unions did so to remove the Heath Government of 1974.
    Could not stand her myself but I do not delude myself that she was not a product of the times and had a popular mandate handed her three times and never lost an election but was removed by her own party. Sadly she destroyed a Tory Party that was to the left of most British political parties of today (albeit coming from a nobilesse oblige tradition of One Nation Toryism, where people like McMillan and Heath believed in a balanced, fair society ). She took the whole political spectrum to the right, where it essentially remains today. The antics of the 1970s played a large part in this shift. Militant trade unionism ate itself. Had Scargill and his coterie played their hands correctly and had an actual strike ballot, which they would conceivably have won, they might have prevailed in the public arena but they did not, because Scargill despised ‘bourgeois democracy’.
    Take T78s point about the South Wales pits but then it has to be seen that the closure of the mines was well underway under Labour in the 1970s. She saw these pits as uneconomic and part of the power base of those she (and a large part of her electorate) saw as unions trying to run the state without any democratic mandate. False but believable in the times that were in it.
    It is instructive to note that neither Labour nor Coalition governments have reversed her union law

    MT was a monster in many ways but she reflected her times as much as she created those times. The days when a moderate Labour minister like Bill Rodgers could be told in advance of an annual conference that Harold Wilson, Denis Healet and Jack Jones ran the country helped create a Thatcher and certainly eased her way to power.
    Last edited by isola ciarrai; 18-April-2013, 17:35.

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  • fitzy73
    replied
    Originally posted by busby View Post
    Ah in fairness, the guy isn't all there. You have to take him for what he is, which is mentally ill.
    That is what I am saying though.

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  • busby
    replied
    Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post
    Surely that Muppet was sectioned over his marathon intrusion.
    Ah in fairness, the guy isn't all there. You have to take him for what he is, which is mentally ill.

    Leave a comment:

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