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Maggie Thatcher has died

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    Originally posted by rathbaner View Post
    ..

    Now the only thing made in Britain now are Japenese cars.

    ..
    well British Leyland were so good, built by a dedicated workforce
    Nulla semper amicus, servivit mihi, in iniuriam mihi neminem quem non persolvi

    Comment


      Originally posted by Huwie View Post
      Surely she was more the cause of the problem.
      When the pits, steelworks, foundries, factories, docks etc closed down, there were less jobs for the young working classes to go into.
      In the same way, by selling off the council houses all the best social housing stock was gone and the established communities destroyed.

      Thank you for that Huwie, but I'd go further.

      Late 80s i was living in S. England (have moved from a job overseas working with a lot of UK ex-pats...they'd had to move because of Mrs T and to a man (& woman...) really loathed her and what they saw as her scorched earth policies).

      We were comfortable in S. England - many were and those who questioned were told to get on their bike or starve where they were (NT); the Iron Lady (or rusty witch as I found out later was her moniker in most of the UK...). Then her policies also hit the "affluent" south - my company (& job) went too. It was because of this I was educated on her policies and the results. Because of my technical skills I found plenty of employment without having to move house (it was unsellable anyway - similar/worse than here now folks...). I found some temp/consultancy work in the city (met a lot of traders, others - revealing....); I found a job with a (US) company covering all of the UK (they specialised in takeovers...). Spent time in Hull, Macclesfield, Aberdeen, Stirling, Belfast, Chester, Swansea, etc, etc - I was doing 80k a year driving and flying twice that - still moonlighting the odd (v. early morning stint at the LSE...). I saw real poverty; and was also meeting people with dosh, contacts and totally immersed in their world/work (so was I...). Then one week I was switched to another detail and ended up pairing with an old hand; we were based in Normanton (Yorks) for the week. Look it up. His dad was a Welsh miner (with a Lahndan accent, living outside Oxford...), I learned a lot. I knew the UK economy was totally f**ked, but I hadn't realised she had also hurt literally 10s of millions of good great britons.

      She had destroyed the mines, all primary manufacturing, most of the ports, made the armed forces a laughing stock (they had to use "converted" (i.e. scrapped...) ex-cruise liners as the assault ships against a very makeshift Argentinian invasion "force"; and struggled to win that (US helped - a lot; I was in that loop....). In the end she almost destroyed UK inc. Because of what John Major did in rescuing a very lost cause in super quick time, I have utmost respect for him. But she had destroyed whole communities and even countries. You won't see much support for Torys in Wales, Scotland, most of England (N. from Bristol to Oxford to Essex). As well as destroying England, she divided and destroyed her own party in most of the country; no wonder the Queen hated her.

      Yes she was some (political) player - but whose team was she on?

      Look up what here son was doing and you might get some idea.

      btw, I was deadly serious on her take on the EU (as distinct from EEC), and she was dead right. She wasn't stupid (even if often wrong).

      Yep, a divisive character who nearly destroyed the country she is now being feted (by some anyway) by; The first since Churchill to get a ceremonial send off). Winston may not have been great either, but I have respect for the guy - he drank under fire in SA and he also drank and got along with Collins, both ended up not trusting Dev; Maggie was bowled over by Dev's successor (Charles J....). You couldn't script it......
      Last edited by 99_oK?; 9-April-2013, 22:03.

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        I only wanted to know if she was a Cnut or not, subsequently it's been a massive history lesson and insight into just how influential she appeared to be in the lives of everyone on these islands.

        To my mind, she seems to have been a tyrant, the deciding factor being whether you believed a tyrant was needed at that time or not. The politico geographical landscape seems to have settled and melded far more since her time of power. Which is somewhat baffling, you'd have thought with all the misery and penury being foisted upon this nation and our wider neighbours at the moment there'd be more battling in industry and politics.

        My generation are all floppies.
        I am the million man.

        Comment


          [QUOTE=Cowboy;1214976]The politico geographical landscape seems to have settled and melded far more since her time of power. Which is somewhat baffling, you'd have thought with all the misery and penury being foisted upon this nation and our wider neighbours at the moment there'd be more battling in industry and politics.

          QUOTE]This is the key political point imo, everyone across Europe and even in the UK has moved to the centre. The problem is I think we are doomed to continue in boom and bust cycles, that is if we ever have a boom cycle again, I intend to go absolutely nuts on the next one :)
          My computer thinks I'm gay
          What's the difference anyway
          When all the people do all day
          Is stare into a phone

          Comment


            Whilst anything might happen, these things happen.
            RIP, rest being the operative word.
            Gwan Joe!!

            Comment


              Russell Brand, of all people, has written the finest reflection on Maggie that I've seen. Really is brilliant.

              http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/09/russell-brand-margaret-thatcher
              Last edited by paki; 9-April-2013, 22:56.
              Biffo ate my future.

              Comment


                Excellent and thoughtful piece - thanks paki.

                A few passages stand out for me:
                "Barack Obama, interestingly, said in his statement that she had "broken the glass ceiling for other women". Only in the sense that all the women beneath her were blinded by falling shards. She is an icon of individualism, not of feminism."

                "The blunt, pathetic reality today is that a little old lady has died, who in the winter of her life had to water roses alone under police supervision. If you behave like there's no such thing as society, in the end there isn't. Her death must be sad for the handful of people she was nice to and the rich people who got richer under her stewardship. It isn't sad for anyone else."

                "All of us that grew up under Thatcher were taught that it is good to be selfish, that other people's pain is not your problem, that pain is in fact a weakness and suffering is deserved and shameful. Perhaps there is resentment because the clemency and respect that are being mawkishly displayed now by some and haughtily demanded of the rest of us at the impending, solemn ceremonial funeral, are values that her government and policies sought to annihilate."
                Tis but a scratch.

                Comment


                  Lovely piece Paki.

                  I'm no fan of hers but it's someone's mother and presumably grandmother who has died, it's worth remembering that she was just a person like the rest of us.
                  "If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards - checkmate!" Zapp Brannigan

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post
                    But there are a lot more than two ways to skin a cat, there are hundreds of ways. Everyone is carrying on as though the world was black and white. The people on one side will not accept that she ever did anything that wasn't the incarnation of pure evil. Many on the other side will defend her until they give themselves an aneurism and will maintain she was the greatest human being who ever walked Gods earth.

                    The truth as usual is somewhere in between. However There is a story I heard about this 'demon' that might surprise some people. At a smart reception in 10 Downing St the young girl waiting on the event dropped a tray right in the middle of the packed room covering herself and a few of the guests in all sorts. The kid burst into tears and the first person there to clear up the mess and help this girl was Margaret Thatcher, my acquaintance said she ignored everyone in the room and concentrated all her attentions on this upset girl.
                    As Mr. K'Murty was wont to state: 'If good is the opposite of evil, it is not goode'.
                    Last edited by ustix; 10-April-2013, 00:17.
                    Gwan Joe!!

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by mr chips View Post
                      "Barack Obama, interestingly, said in his statement that she had "broken the glass ceiling for other women". Only in the sense that all the women beneath her were blinded by falling shards. She is an icon of individualism, not of feminism."
                      I think it was actually michelle obama who said that.
                      Easy to see how quotes often get attributed to someone else.

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                        Quite possibly - better get on to Russell Brand about that! TBH I don't mind whether Barack or Michelle said it, as it was the substance rather than the source that stood out for me.
                        Tis but a scratch.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by paki View Post
                          Russell Brand, of all people, has written the finest reflection on Maggie that I've seen. Really is brilliant.

                          http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/09/russell-brand-margaret-thatcher
                          Great piece. It could be summed up by one line.

                          "I hope I'm not being reductive but it seems Thatcher's time in power was solely spent diminishing the resources of those who had least for the advancement of those who had most".
                          Many of societies ills that has come since - the corporate greed, the trampling of the poor, the continued widening in the gap between those who have and those who don't, the sycophantic and narcissistic nature of many people - are, imho, a direct line from Maggies policies.

                          It's a pity I don't believe in hell.
                          Please support Milford Hospice. Click here to donate.

                          Comment


                            That really is an outstanding piece. Well written and both thoughtful and though provoking. Well done Mr Brand.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Jenta View Post
                              I think we should either be given a definitive list of these dogmatic socialists or Viigand should be banned for a week for an unforgiveable case of Outlawing.
                              I'm a Blueshirt and I loathed her!
                              Ceterum censeo INM irrumandum esse.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by sewa View Post
                                How did she win so many democratic elections when its clear from a quick look at the internet that she was the devil incarnate and was decimating everyone bar a minority of rich powerful people?
                                North Sea Oil. Blew the cash to buy off insurrection by - just - keeping people alive on benefits and funding the SE with the Lawson boom/bubble. Cost more than keeping the pits and mills open for a staged movement to a more competitive model, and wiped out those communities so they have, and effectively will never have, a functioning economy.
                                Ceterum censeo INM irrumandum esse.

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