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    EU: UK to pull out?

    I've managed to hold my whist and not call this thread "53% of Britons are morons".

    A poll in The Times shows the UK would vote by 53% to 47% to leave the European Union if a referendum was held now and not in 2017, as the Prime Minister is proposing.
    http://news.sky.com/story/1042576/po...ron-eu-message
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    #2
    Can't help thinking that when the City of London banks start relocating to Frankfurt that the mood may change. Or maybe Cameron can do what the IRA failed to do and cause a panic in the City.

    I wouldn't be too sorry if they left though and Ireland followed them. George Soros was just saying today how much better Iceland fare than Ireland after the collapse.

    With friends like Merkel who need enemies.
    Last edited by rathbaner; 25th-January-2013, 17:48.
    Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2019.

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      #3
      Or maybe that wouldn't happen at all. Judging that people are morons because you disagree doesn't make that true. It's like the news reporting where they went to the Eurostar terminus and interviewed businessmen returning from doing business in Europe and used that to state that the general feeling was it's a ridiculous move. And in more breaking news, bears really do **** in the woods. No one actually knows how it would pan out because no one has seriously suggested trying it. Just because the French are shouting "don't let the door hit your arse on the way out" doesn't mean every other EU nation would follow them. The business ties cut both ways, a lot of European companies are dealing with British ones, that could equally mean those European companies could up sticks and move. The Euro is a dying currency, why would the Eurozone be the dominant force in that deal? Simple answer is it wouldn't. If companies in Germany could do better deals with non UK companies here's the shock, they'd be doing them. There's more to the business deals than you're in the EU here we'll be nice and have a deal with you. Business sense and money making counts for more with these guys than politics and if it makes business sense NOT to cut their own nose off out of spite then they won't do it.
      \"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"

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        #4
        Originally posted by Evil Omer View Post
        Or maybe that wouldn't happen at all. Judging that people are morons because you disagree doesn't make that true. It's like the news reporting where they went to the Eurostar terminus and interviewed businessmen returning from doing business in Europe and used that to state that the general feeling was it's a ridiculous move. And in more breaking news, bears really do **** in the woods. No one actually knows how it would pan out because no one has seriously suggested trying it. Just because the French are shouting "don't let the door hit your arse on the way out" doesn't mean every other EU nation would follow them. The business ties cut both ways, a lot of European companies are dealing with British ones, that could equally mean those European companies could up sticks and move. The Euro is a dying currency, why would the Eurozone be the dominant force in that deal? Simple answer is it wouldn't. If companies in Germany could do better deals with non UK companies here's the shock, they'd be doing them. There's more to the business deals than you're in the EU here we'll be nice and have a deal with you. Business sense and money making counts for more with these guys than politics and if it makes business sense NOT to cut their own nose off out of spite then they won't do it.
        The "moron" jibe was that your average Brit has not an idea of how much business, and therefore employment, is generated by being part of the EU. The EU is by no means ideal - I'm personally a huge critic of monetary union - but that doesn't mean that the overall fundamental is flawed.

        I'd be on the first plane out of London if it ever happened.
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          #5
          There's more chance of Point going on hunger strike until Tony McGahan comes back than the UK leaving our glorious European Union.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: EU: UK to pull out?

            Don't forget 3 decades of anti-eu irrational propaganda in the Mail, Express, Sun, etc etc. Oddly, most of the anti-eu press stories are targeted at single market regulations. That, or social protection & health regs.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post
              The "moron" jibe was that your average Brit has not an idea of how much business, and therefore employment, is generated by being part of the EU. The EU is by no means ideal - I'm personally a huge critic of monetary union - but that doesn't mean that the overall fundamental is flawed.

              I'd be on the first plane out of London if it ever happened.
              I would challenge is the business generated by being part of the EU or by being "round the corner" relatively speaking and available for it. I honestly would ask the same question, if they could get a better deal elsewhere would they be trading with the UK just because of the EU? Answer is almost certainly no.

              We do business with European companies who deal in Euros, Sterling and Dollars on the same deals with Canadian, UK, European partners, including non EU partners. This is major business, e.g. aviation deals.

              Business does what is financially best for itself first and foremost. I'd still argue that if that business makes sense the noises will be made to the politicians to reign their neck in and stop playing points scoring - it's being done now against Cameron but there is zero reason it couldn't cut the other way and be German etc businesses telling their "leaders". Again the threats to cut and run to somewhere else can as easily be made by the companies still in the EU. Do you think Germany wants to see its major companies setting up shop in the UK because its easier to trade? This is not a cut and dried situation.

              Do you think a major German company is going to just accept being told they have to cut all business contracts with UK companies right now, stop all pipeline deals, cut all future contracts with them? It's not that simple as UK leaves and all business ceases. It may be in the minds of politicians, when they're not thinking about how to screw their next buck out of the taxpayers, but it isn't in the real world.
              \"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by MrsMcGahan View Post
                There's more chance of Point going on hunger strike until Tony McGahan comes back than the UK leaving our glorious European Union.
                There's more chance of EU caving in. Bearing in mind how much excrement the fan is buried under financially in the EU, first one to leave could set the path for others. The people owning the EU right now can't take that risk of others following. It's like a battlefield situation, you're fine while everyone stays put, the second one cuts and runs everyone sees it is now an option and more follow.
                Last edited by Evil Omer; 25th-January-2013, 21:07.
                \"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"

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                  #9
                  I used to think the EU was a brilliant thing and couldnt understand the UK's anxiety with it. But over the past years Ive become less certain. Among its main aims is a commitment to democracy but Im not sure that the people of the member states of Europe are actually committed to this "ever closer union" that many of their politicians seek - eg the referendum held in France on EU Constitution (and also others in Netherlands and Ireland). I know these politicians are democratically elected by the people, but statistics suggest that people are far more interested in domestic issues (than EU issues) when selecting their politicians. They dont know or care about whats happening in Brussels. Its hard to have blind faith in politicians' spin/schemes like "ever closer union", given what happened with the Euro.

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post
                    I've managed to hold my whist and not call this thread "53% of Britons are morons".



                    http://news.sky.com/story/1042576/po...ron-eu-message
                    Do you believe in democracy, fitzy?

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                      #11
                      EU: UK to pull out?

                      Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post
                      Do you believe in democracy, fitzy?
                      I'm not questioning the validity of having a referendum - even if its just a Tory ruse to kick UKIP.
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                        #12
                        Originally posted by Evil Omer View Post
                        There's more chance of EU caving in. Bearing in mind how much excrement the fan is buried under financially in the EU, first one to leave could set the path for others. The people owning the EU right now can't take that risk of others following. It's like a battlefield situation, you're fine while everyone stays put, the second one cuts and runs everyone sees it is now an option and more follow.
                        24 carat, pure bred, olympic standard, pedigree gibberish.
                        you haven't the vaguest notion of what is happening in the real world outside of the end of the world fog clogging up the neurons in your cranium.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post
                          I'm not questioning the validity of having a referendum - even if its just a Tory ruse to kick UKIP.
                          No one under the age of sixty has ever been asked if they want to be part of the EU. I would genuinely like to hear a sensible debate about the pros and cons because in some aspects the EU makes sense but the utter madness of the CAP, something about which I know a fair amount, would not be a great advertisement for the institution. Cameron has played a blinder politically whether you like him or not by simultaneously steeling the thunder of UKIP, his euro sceptic back benchers and the Labour party.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Evil Omer View Post
                            I would challenge is the business generated by being part of the EU or by being "round the corner" relatively speaking and available for it. I honestly would ask the same question, if they could get a better deal elsewhere would they be trading with the UK just because of the EU? Answer is almost certainly no.

                            We do business with European companies who deal in Euros, Sterling and Dollars on the same deals with Canadian, UK, European partners, including non EU partners. This is major business, e.g. aviation deals.

                            Business does what is financially best for itself first and foremost. I'd still argue that if that business makes sense the noises will be made to the politicians to reign their neck in and stop playing points scoring - it's being done now against Cameron but there is zero reason it couldn't cut the other way and be German etc businesses telling their "leaders". Again the threats to cut and run to somewhere else can as easily be made by the companies still in the EU. Do you think Germany wants to see its major companies setting up shop in the UK because its easier to trade? This is not a cut and dried situation.

                            Do you think a major German company is going to just accept being told they have to cut all business contracts with UK companies right now, stop all pipeline deals, cut all future contracts with them? It's not that simple as UK leaves and all business ceases. It may be in the minds of politicians, when they're not thinking about how to screw their next buck out of the taxpayers, but it isn't in the real world.
                            Are you disagreeing with these guys?

                            http://www.bnegroup.org/about/people/
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                              #15
                              EU: UK to pull out?

                              This will be a career defining error for Cameron. For a short term trade off vs UKIP (which will have a limited impact anyway) he has created economic uncertainty, and now finds himself stressing how he will campaign to stay in.

                              He's promised a referendum in five years time, can't say what he's aiming to negotiate in exchange for staying in, can't say what would trigger a decision to pull out, can't say what powers he wants repatriated or what he'll settle for.

                              He's exposed himself as the PR driven con merchant he is.
                              "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                              "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                              "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

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