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    Originally posted by Wallyman View Post
    The 'build more houses NOW' thing is simplistic rubbish. As the CIF said earlier this year, quite simply there aren't enough construction workers in the country. There are literally thousands units through the planning process waiting to be built.

    Then you have members of opposition parties (including SF TDs) objecting to large housing developments on their own doorsteps.

    Despite being very slow ramping up there were 21k homes built last year and it would have been 24k this year if Covid hadn't struck. SF would not have been able to do this any faster as, despite their rhetoric, as it's not physically possible to do it.
    ********. There's plenty, and more of them in Australia and more again illegally in the USA. The bottleneck is land hoarding. Of course Covid19 has had an effect but the lockdown happened in March 2020, not March 2010.

    One of the reasons building workers won't come home is that housing is too expensive!
    Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2021.

    Comment


      A huge percentage of our construction industry workers in the 00s were from Eastern Europe. They're not gone to Aus or the US, they went home to their own countries and aren't coming back. And the bottle neck is not land hoarding, As I already said there are thousands of units with planning permission waiting to be build and thousands more currently going through planning. That wouldn't be the case if the issue was land hoarding.

      And the numbers of completed homes has been increasing rapidly year on year until this year. 14,400 in 2017, 18,000 in 2018 and 21,200 in 2019 with 24000 expected this year before Covid. On those trends we'd be building the necessary 30000 a year by 2022.

      It was and is impossible to go from building less than 10000 units a year to 30000 instantly. It takes years to ramp up the process and SF would not have been able to do it any faster.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Wallyman View Post
        As I already said there are thousands of units with planning permission waiting to be build and thousands more currently going through planning. That wouldn't be the case if the issue was land hoarding.
        Oh man! That IS land hoarding, right there.

        The point of the planning permission is not to actually build anything, it's to demonstrate that the land is not a field capable of maintaining a goat and two horses, but potentially an estate of 60 houses each valued at 400k.


        Originally posted by Wallyman View Post
        And the numbers of completed homes has been increasing rapidly year on year until this year. 14,400 in 2017, 18,000 in 2018 and 21,200 in 2019 with 24000 expected this year before Covid. On those trends we'd be building the necessary 30000 a year by 2022.

        It was and is impossible to go from building less than 10000 units a year to 30000 instantly. It takes years to ramp up the process and SF would not have been able to do it any faster.
        Ireland needs 35k houses per year for the next 10 years to meet demand, building anything less than that, for example 21k, just means that you ensure that demand outstrips supply so that prices keep going up.

        The latest Society of Chartered Surveyors Ireland report blames land speculators too;"... the cost-saving differential in the delivery of private housing compared to social housing can be within the range of €140,000-€160,000 due “to the nil cost attributed to land, levies, finance, developers’ margin and sales and marketing costs”.
        A view endorsed by yesterday's Irish Times https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/e...each-1.4320896

        Neither the Irish Times nor the Society of Chartered Surveyors Ireland are noted Sinn Fein apologists.

        FG policy, and it is a policy even if only by refusal to intervene in the market, is to keep house prices high.
        As a consequence of this policy, our children will be shut out of home ownership and forced into the arms of an exploitative letting market. And it's such a wasteful policy.

        Why invest yout capital in a productive industry when you can squeeze the life out of hard working 20 and 30 yr olds as a landlord/vulture fund. And the money those young people shell out in rent is lost to the real economy of cafes, pubs, clubs, cinemas, theatres, bookshops and everything that makes life worth living, That's why young Irish people are quitting jobs in Ireland to emigrate.

        Whatever about SF's past, it sees the problem. FF/FG made the country the way it is and simply cannot imagine their way out of it.
        Last edited by rathbaner; 4-August-2020, 14:53.
        Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2021.

        Comment


          Originally posted by rathbaner View Post
          Oh man! That IS land hoarding, right there.

          The point of the planning permission is not to actually build anything, it's to demonstrate that the land is not a field capable of maintaining a goat and two horses, but potentially an estate of 60 houses each valued at 400k.



          Ireland needs 35k houses per year for the next 10 years to meet demand, building anything less than that, for example 21k, just means that you ensure that demand outstrips supply so that prices keep going up.

          The latest Society of Chartered Surveyors Ireland report blames land speculators too;"... the cost-saving differential in the delivery of private housing compared to social housing can be within the range of €140,000-€160,000 due “to the nil cost attributed to land, levies, finance, developers’ margin and sales and marketing costs”.
          A view endorsed by yesterday's Irish Times https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/e...each-1.4320896

          Neither the Irish Times nor the Society of Chartered Surveyors Ireland are noted Sinn Fein apologists.

          FG policy, and it is a policy even if only by refusal to intervene in the market, is to keep house prices high.
          As a consequence of this policy, our children will be shut out of home ownership and forced into the arms of an exploitative letting market. And it's such a wasteful policy.

          Why invest yout capital in a productive industry when you can squeeze the life out of hard working 20 and 30 yr olds as a landlord/vulture fund. And the money those young people shell out in rent is lost to the real economy of cafes, pubs, clubs, cinemas, theatres, bookshops and everything that makes life worth living, That's why young Irish people are quitting jobs in Ireland to emigrate.

          Whatever about SF's past, it sees the problem. FF/FG made the country the way it is and simply cannot imagine their way out of it.
          so do you think SF are fit for government?
          Only fools and drunks argue over everything. If you don’t have a hangover the next day you’re not the drunk...

          Comment


            Originally posted by Oldschoolsocks View Post

            so do you think SF are fit for government?
            If they are elected they are fit. What's the alternative?


            And I can't believe that you read my post and that was the question you thought arose from it.

            In any case. The Society of Chartered Surveyors and the Irish Times agree that the govt land hoarders and landlords policy is not what's needed for citizens.
            Last edited by rathbaner; 4-August-2020, 15:36.
            Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2021.

            Comment


              Originally posted by rathbaner View Post

              If they are elected they are fit. What's the alternative?


              And I can't believe that you read my post and that was the question you thought arose from it.

              In any case. The Society of Chartered Surveyors and the Irish Times agree that the govt land hoarders and landlords policy is not what's needed for citizens.
              wringing your hands a bit there matey
              Only fools and drunks argue over everything. If you don’t have a hangover the next day you’re not the drunk...

              Comment


                Originally posted by rathbaner View Post
                Oh man! That IS land hoarding, right there.

                The point of the planning permission is not to actually build anything, it's to demonstrate that the land is not a field capable of maintaining a goat and two horses, but potentially an estate of 60 houses each valued at 400k.



                Ireland needs 35k houses per year for the next 10 years to meet demand, building anything less than that, for example 21k, just means that you ensure that demand outstrips supply so that prices keep going up.

                The latest Society of Chartered Surveyors Ireland report blames land speculators too;"... the cost-saving differential in the delivery of private housing compared to social housing can be within the range of €140,000-€160,000 due “to the nil cost attributed to land, levies, finance, developers’ margin and sales and marketing costs”.
                A view endorsed by yesterday's Irish Times https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/e...each-1.4320896

                Neither the Irish Times nor the Society of Chartered Surveyors Ireland are noted Sinn Fein apologists.

                FG policy, and it is a policy even if only by refusal to intervene in the market, is to keep house prices high.
                As a consequence of this policy, our children will be shut out of home ownership and forced into the arms of an exploitative letting market. And it's such a wasteful policy.

                Why invest yout capital in a productive industry when you can squeeze the life out of hard working 20 and 30 yr olds as a landlord/vulture fund. And the money those young people shell out in rent is lost to the real economy of cafes, pubs, clubs, cinemas, theatres, bookshops and everything that makes life worth living, That's why young Irish people are quitting jobs in Ireland to emigrate.

                Whatever about SF's past, it sees the problem. FF/FG made the country the way it is and simply cannot imagine their way out of it.
                As someone who works in this industry, that Irish Times piece is total flim flam. The meter of concrete on a public job costs the same as a private one, as does the statutory documentation as does the legals and all the other elements of any project. Construction rates are the same in public and private (apart from the magic money tree children's hospital). Which leads me to the second element of why it's bollix:

                Let's imagine for a moment the local authority owns 6 acres of prime land inside a city or on its edge. Is it more valuable to sell to the market at it's zenith or use for free houses? It's a no brainer Shirley?

                Ive no position on the thread topic one way or tither, but I can tell you my belief is councils are more interested in taking turn key projects off developers than doing the gig in-house. They get better value, they don't see the program or the budget go daft, they just take the units once they're done.

                That's just my take as a designer involved in these things
                I am the million man.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
                  As someone who works in this industry, that Irish Times piece is total flim flam. The meter of concrete on a public job costs the same as a private one, as does the statutory documentation as does the legals and all the other elements of any project. Construction rates are the same in public and private (apart from the magic money tree children's hospital). Which leads me to the second element of why it's bollix:

                  Let's imagine for a moment the local authority owns 6 acres of prime land inside a city or on its edge. Is it more valuable to sell to the market at it's zenith or use for free houses? It's a no brainer Shirley?

                  Ive no position on the thread topic one way or tither, but I can tell you my belief is councils are more interested in taking turn key projects off developers than doing the gig in-house. They get better value, they don't see the program or the budget go daft, they just take the units once they're done.

                  That's just my take as a designer involved in these things
                  It's not an Irish Times report, it's a report by the Institute of Chartered Surveyors that's covered by the Irish Times. So, no offence, I think they're a reliable source of factual information.

                  Local authorities are banned from borrowing to build homes and they're in house direct labour departments were shut down, all as a result of government legislation to stop them building council houses. That's why they are uninterested in doing the gig in house. It's outlawed.
                  Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2021.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by rathbaner View Post

                    It's not an Irish Times report, it's a report by the Institute of Chartered Surveyors that's covered by the Irish Times. So, no offence, I think they're a reliable source of factual information.

                    Local authorities are banned from borrowing to build homes and they're in house direct labour departments were shut down, all as a result of government legislation to stop them building council houses. That's why they are uninterested in doing the gig in house. It's outlawed.
                    I not disagreeing with you, I was trying to give a bit of background to the irish times piece. I should have been clearer on my wording, there is no interest in the housing depts going back to council housing.

                    I personally take the chartered surveyors report quite cautiously, the council could own 100 acres and get developers in to create housing on it for them, but how you finance that without a developers fee is beyond me. Of course they own the site, but if its valuable is it worth land banking and flogging to the market? more valuable than social housing?

                    Many many variables that you can skew to make it look attractive as anything OR a non runner like
                    I am the million man.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Cowboy View Post

                      I not disagreeing with you, I was trying to give a bit of background to the irish times piece. I should have been clearer on my wording, there is no interest in the housing depts going back to council housing.

                      I personally take the chartered surveyors report quite cautiously, the council could own 100 acres and get developers in to create housing on it for them, but how you finance that without a developers fee is beyond me. Of course they own the site, but if its valuable is it worth land banking and flogging to the market? more valuable than social housing?

                      Many many variables that you can skew to make it look attractive as anything OR a non runner like
                      I get it. But there is still something drastically wrong right at the core of the housing crisis, rather than fix it, our government will allow our young people to be fed for exploitation in a parasitic letting market to a degree that is ultimately destructive of the national interest.
                      Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2021.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by rathbaner View Post

                        I get it. But there is still something drastically wrong right at the core of the housing crisis, rather than fix it, our government will allow our young people to be fed for exploitation in a parasitic letting market to a degree that is ultimately destructive of the national interest.
                        Who ya telling!! 35 years of age, 2008 crash happened the Sept after I graduated, been on the back foot ever since up until about a year ago and then this covid ****. Buying our own home seems a long way off once again.
                        I am the million man.

                        Comment


                          Fianna Fail politician Thomas Byrne was widely reported as the man who fed the Barry Cowan story to the press, and is now embroiled in another scandal, that Fianna Fail leadership have failed to deal with...

                          https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/e...uffe-0r8rss53g

                          A former Fianna Fail general election candidate is standing by her allegation on Twitter that Thomas Byrne, minister for European affairs, used insulting language about her in a phone call with a colleague four years ago.

                          Jennifer Cuffe, a councillor in Dun Laoghaire until last year, says she reported Byrne’s sexist language to Fianna Fail but “nothing happened”.

                          On July 9, Cuffe, the barrister who stood as a general election candidate for Wicklow in 2016, tweeted: “@ThomasByrneTD should be very careful with his phone calls. I previously heard him denigrate me over Bluetooth in a TD’s car. This included calling me a ‘slut’ and ‘whore’.

                          Comment


                            Given that Fianna Fail's Thomas Byrne is still in his job, it appears that calling a co-worker a "slut and a whore" is ok according to meehole.

                            What are people's opinions on this?

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Major TNT View Post
                              Given that Fianna Fail's Thomas Byrne is still in his job, it appears that calling a co-worker a "slut and a whore" is ok according to meehole.

                              What are people's opinions on this?
                              If I said that to a colleague or about a colleague (regardless of gender) my feet wouldn't touch the floor on the way out of the door.
                              Excellence is hard to keep quite - Sherrie Coale

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by McCloud View Post

                                If I said that to a colleague or about a colleague (regardless of gender) my feet wouldn't touch the floor on the way out of the door.
                                Same here. And rightly so.
                                So why do normal workplace rules, and just simple common sense and respect for co-workers, not apply to those within the fianna fail party?

                                Comment

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