Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The most inept coalition yet?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Supreme Court calmly investigating and will look at the broader issue of whether the Supreme Court judge should have attended such an event. But that will probably not suit our media (and others) who want instant heads on the plate.

    www.rte.ie/amp/1161007/

    Comment


      Originally posted by The Last Stand View Post

      The Oireachtas has a rugby team also which plays against other parliaments. They go to 6 nations games and include players from across parties, invitees and indeed I think some journalists have participated. They also have dinners and socialise. There is a soccer team also. And as regards the Society was the Supreme Court Justice a member up until a few weeks ago? Brian Hayes was a former member of parliament. You can decide all these things should end (people partying?) but where is the line?

      But what I clearly understand is that you want heads, and as many heads as you can possibly get. And you are getting those heads right now. I would have stopped seeking heads when the Minister who signed off on the new rules the today before at Cabinet resigned. The IHF guidelines agreed with Bold Failte would have up that the day before allowed such an event to go ahead - and indeed provided much need employment to the hospitality sector.
      Don't think the rugby team you are referencing met for a knees up during a pandemic? But I see you are content to be led and not expect those who lead you to behave in the same way.
      Excellence is hard to keep quite - Sherrie Coale

      Comment


        Originally posted by McCloud View Post

        Don't think the rugby team you are referencing met for a knees up during a pandemic? But I see you are content to be led and not expect those who lead you to behave in the same way.
        We will have this pandemic for the next two years - we need to find a way to live with it. And quite frankly the messaging around this has been confusing for the last two months.

        Anyway, Ikea have a plate sale as you will need them for the 80 plus heads you want plus presumably all the FF and FG politicians who would have attended except they were not invited.

        There are really serious issues including the education of our children to deal with now and this baying for blood is at this point in time a distraction.

        edit - the pandemic was with us when England played Ireland in February. So yes they did meet up during the pandemic.
        Last edited by The Last Stand; 24-August-2020, 21:30.

        Comment


          This is my prediction FWIW:

          IF the outraged scream so loud, as to pressurise our political leaders so much as to cost Ireland a European Commissioner in the trade portfolio, 4 months from when the Brexit deal & future trading relationship is finally fully negotiated, for simply attending a dinner that exceeded public health guidelines, it will go down as the single most stupid, self defeating, over-reaction from any Irish government this century....

          Honestly, can't the holier than thou brigade see this for the massively damaging gross over reaction it is in danger of becoming!??
          Last edited by Daithi; 24-August-2020, 21:41.
          ____________________________________________
          Munster were great when they were Munster.

          alas they are just north munster now.......
          ____________________________________________

          Comment


            Originally posted by Daithi View Post
            This is my prediction FWIW:

            IF the outraged scream so loud, as to pressurise our political leaders so much as to cost Ireland a European Commissioner in the trade portfolio, 4 months from when the Brexit deal & future trading relationship is finally fully negotiated, for simply attending a dinner that exceeded public health guidelines, it will go down as the single most stupid, self defeating, over-reaction from any Irish government this century....

            Honestly, can't the holier than thou brigade see this for the massively damaging gross over reaction it is in danger of becoming!??
            Can you not see how damaging this event is to what was called we are all in this together on this island?
            Excellence is hard to keep quite - Sherrie Coale

            Comment


              Originally posted by The Last Stand View Post

              We will have this pandemic for the next two years - we need to find a way to live with it. And quite frankly the messaging around this has been confusing for the last two months.

              Anyway, Ikea have a plate sale as you will need them for the 80 plus heads you want plus presumably all the FF and FG politicians who would have attended except they were not invited.

              There are really serious issues including the education of our children to deal with now and this baying for blood is at this point in time a distraction.

              edit - the pandemic was with us when England played Ireland in February. So yes they did meet up during the pandemic.
              Don't think the edic was in place in February so I guess your floundering a bit trying to defend the indefensible. But sure what ever floats your boat I just know from listening to people all this talk about being in this together is now dead thanks to the actions of the political elite.
              Excellence is hard to keep quite - Sherrie Coale

              Comment


                Originally posted by McCloud View Post

                Don't think the edic was in place in February so I guess your floundering a bit trying to defend the indefensible. But sure what ever floats your boat I just know from listening to people all this talk about being in this together is now dead thanks to the actions of the political elite.
                And the rules on gathering below 50 people In a room was in place until the day before the event and there was still no guidelines issued on what were the new rules. The guidance given to the hotels was that this was allowed - I.e splitting a function in two. The change on Tuesday was that the 50 max rule was for weddings only (which is not consistent). The hotels federation said today that they did not receive the new guidance until Friday morning.

                This was more like two yellow cards rather than a straight red in terms of an offence. The person present who signed off on the rules the day before was the Minister who rightfully resigned - the rest is just looking for blood (and Hogan’s blood at that primarily for prior offences).

                I will continue to take personal care to ensure I keep myself safe (I don’t play golf and I hate those types of functions) but if you wish to damage your health as two fingers to the political elite then go ahead

                Comment


                  To put the points above into context in terms of the advice, please see http://www.irishtimes.com/news/irela...125%3fmode=amp


                  The Irish Hotels Federation has said it was awaiting clarification from the Government on updated guidelines for the hosting of functions in hotels announced last Tuesday at the time a controversial dinner was hosted by the Oireachtas Golf Society in a hotel in Connemara on Wednesday.

                  The IHF indicated it believed that the event, which led to the resignation of the Minister for Agriculture, Dara Calleary, complied with Government guidelines under a protocol agreed with the Department of Tourism.

                  In a statement issued on Friday, the IHF said current guidelines around capacity at an indoor event were “clear” and permitted a maximum of 50 people at any one time including hotel staff and other event support workers.

                  Although that condition pertained at the time the event was first organised, stricter guidelines were announced by the government on Tuesday which stated that “no formal or informal events or parties should be organised” in hotels, with the exception of weddings.

                  The Oireachtas Golf Society’s 50th anniversary dinner at the Station House Hotel in Clifden, Co Galway was attended by 81 guests split between two rooms separated by a partition with 45 diners in one room and 36 in the other.

                  The IHF said it had sought clarification on the updated measures announced on Tuesday from Government officials.

                  The organisation said it had advised its members at the time that the “status quo” in terms of operational procedures remained in place until further notice as part of an agreed protocol with the department with responsibility for tourism.

                  “Multiple gatherings are allowed in venue facilities provided they are in separate defined spaces and there are systems to prevent intermingling in common spaces like entrances, exits and toilet facilities,” the IHF said.




                  Comment


                    This is worth a read.

                    https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and...ogan-analysis/

                    if the Commission decide there is no reason/basis for sacking him they will rightfully point to the chaos last Tuesday in announcing the new measures not to mention the inconsistencies. I have no doubt that the former Chief Justice will also provide this context in her report. Perhaps the Government will be on the back feet soon not to mention bad blood.

                    But we will have heads on the Ikea plates.
                    Last edited by The Last Stand; 24-August-2020, 22:43.

                    Comment


                      Two genuine questions

                      At the time of the dinner was there a clearly defined limit on numbers per table and households per table?

                      Under an orange weather warning is there any travel restrictions advisory or otherwise? And was travel during this time ?
                      "Some people don't know their easy lives... I wouldn't be so ungrateful" - Fiacre Ryan - #AutismAndMe

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Daithi View Post
                        This is my prediction FWIW:

                        IF the outraged scream so loud, as to pressurise our political leaders so much as to cost Ireland a European Commissioner in the trade portfolio, 4 months from when the Brexit deal & future trading relationship is finally fully negotiated, for simply attending a dinner that exceeded public health guidelines, it will go down as the single most stupid, self defeating, over-reaction from any Irish government this century....

                        Honestly, can't the holier than thou brigade see this for the massively damaging gross over reaction it is in danger of becoming!??
                        This. I am not a fan of Hogan and think the whole golf fiasco is a major own goal and kick in the face for the vast majority of irish people who have put their lives on hold to control CV19. However Brexit is possibly a bigger threat and certainly is not going to make things any better and having an irishman in a lead role in Brexit trade negotiations is something we should not give up lightly. CV19 will narrow the focus of all EU countries to their own borders and issues, it's even more important now we have a voice for Ireland at the top tables in Brexit and post Brexit trade talks.
                        The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad.
                        - Salvador Dali (1904-1989)

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Hugged Rugger View Post
                          Two genuine questions

                          At the time of the dinner was there a clearly defined limit on numbers per table and households per table?

                          Under an orange weather warning is there any travel restrictions advisory or otherwise? And was travel during this time ?
                          on the weather no idea and presumably many of the attendees were staying in the hotel.

                          as regards the advice, I think it was not quite as clear cut as others are presenting in hindsight and the IHF have made statements in respect to this. The Cabinet meeting last Tuesday which decided on the new restrictions was chaotic (this is probably the bigger issue). Looking at the key outputs from that meeting attached is the front page of the IT and the Govt. I don’t think this would have necessarily alerted someone that was not looking more closely.





                          Click image for larger version  Name:	ED3813EB-E718-4728-AB2C-846D2D88FD7B.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	137.0 KB ID:	2603740
                          Last edited by The Last Stand; 25-August-2020, 09:12.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Upfront_1979 View Post

                            This. I am not a fan of Hogan and think the whole golf fiasco is a major own goal and kick in the face for the vast majority of irish people who have put their lives on hold to control CV19. However Brexit is possibly a bigger threat and certainly is not going to make things any better and having an irishman in a lead role in Brexit trade negotiations is something we should not give up lightly. CV19 will narrow the focus of all EU countries to their own borders and issues, it's even more important now we have a voice for Ireland at the top tables in Brexit and post Brexit trade talks.
                            But where is the suggestion that his replacement would not be appointed as Trade Commissioner. I doubt that the EC President what's the hassle of a full scale reshuffle. The government will appoint a replacement, the EU parliament will confirm the appointment quite quickly and the person could be behind a desk in Brussels by the end of September.

                            Lets also remember that it is Barnier who is leading the negotiations at the moment not Big Phil.

                            I imagine Leo might be looking to promote Simon out of his way and I don't thin anybody could claim that Phil Hogan is a better candidate for trade commissioner than Coveney would be. (Plus it would one more Corkman out of the country which is always a good thing in my book!)

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by The Last Stand View Post

                              on the weather no idea and presumably many of the attendees were staying in the hotel.

                              as regards the advice, I think it was not quite as clear cut as others are presenting in hindsight and the IHF have made statements in respect to this. The Cabinet meeting last Tuesday which decided on the new restrictions was chaotic (this is probably the bigger issue). Looking at the key outputs from that meeting attached is the front page of the IT and the Govt. I don’t think this would have necessarily alerted someone that was not looking more closely.

                              So we can't expect him to be up to date with the Government's policy response to the largest single event during his lifetime but at the same time he is so smart and well briefed that only he can save us from Brexit? The cognitive dissonance is strong.

                              The problem for Hogan is not just the golf event but his general traveling and conduct while in the country, including his visit to Kildare and being stopped by guards but seemingly not penalized for a traffic office that would result in points on the license for any of the rest of us.

                              He has behaved utterly stupidly.

                              The biggest issue facing Ireland in the coming decade is not Brexit alone, it is the risk of instability to the state that a mix of Brexit and the rise of Sinn Fein will cause. The arrogance and hubris that Hogan is showing is a disaster in that it plays right into Sinn Fein's narrative of an out of touch elite.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by AwayFromHome View Post

                                So we can't expect him to be up to date with the Government's policy response to the largest single event during his lifetime but at the same time he is so smart and well briefed that only he can save us from Brexit? The cognitive dissonance is strong.

                                The problem for Hogan is not just the golf event but his general traveling and conduct while in the country, including his visit to Kildare and being stopped by guards but seemingly not penalized for a traffic office that would result in points on the license for any of the rest of us.

                                He has behaved utterly stupidly.

                                The biggest issue facing Ireland in the coming decade is not Brexit alone, it is the risk of instability to the state that a mix of Brexit and the rise of Sinn Fein will cause. The arrogance and hubris that Hogan is showing is a disaster in that it plays right into Sinn Fein's narrative of an out of touch elite.
                                The biggest issue facing Ireland at the moment is our ability to shoot ourselves in the foot. Last week was shambolic on many fronts (and has been for many weeks) and all the Shinners need to do is look on, watch and count the new votes. Some perspective is needed on this. A mistake yes, stupid yes, but a firing offence - In my view no which does not matter whether he is EU Commissioner for Trade or EU Commissioner for Culture.

                                The traffic offence does not look good and presumably the Garda in question took a judgement call - if there was any sense that Hogan pulled his weight and his position in respect to it being a caution only then that is a different issue. Gardai will caution ordinary people also.

                                If you have not seen, this is a good read https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and...ogan-analysis/ I do not think we would necessarily get the Trade brief but that is guess work.

                                Edit - If Hogan is sacked then I certainly will not be mourning his loss (I am not a fan). If he stays then he will have his cards marked within the Commission and there will no doubt be tensions in the Irish relationship. This is looking like a poor show all round.
                                Last edited by The Last Stand; 25-August-2020, 13:24.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X