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    Maybe the thread title should be changed as to be fair they appear to be quite competent at resigning.
    Excellence is hard to keep quite - Sherrie Coale

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      Originally posted by Piquet View Post
      When he entered the room in Wednesday night he should have said to himself "hey, this is not what we agreed yesterday at Cabinet how things are supposed to be" , he should have turned on his heels and left.
      this
      Only fools and drunks argue over everything. If you don’t have a hangover the next day you’re not the drunk...

      Comment


        Originally posted by Piquet View Post
        When he entered the room in Wednesday night he should have said to himself "hey, this is not what we agreed yesterday at Cabinet how things are supposed to be" , he should have turned on his heels and left.
        I agree with you that's what he should have done, but when he didn't do that, probably through carelessness & courtesy to the hosts if nothing else, do you think he should have been forced to resign?
        ____________________________________________
        Munster were great when they were Munster.

        alas they are just north munster now.......
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        Comment


          Of course he should.

          On Tuesday he told the rest of us how we should behave and on Wednesday he did the exact opposite.

          That's not good enough for a Government Minister.

          Comment


            Originally posted by glorob View Post

            Once Michael Cawley was forced to resign last week there was no option but for the Minister to fall on his sword.
            Yep. And now they (media and the mob) want the Commissioner to resign which will be shooting ourselves in the foot. It seems he is on dodgy ground as apparently he has been staying in Kildare.

            Comment


              Agreed. The Taoiseach & government need to get ahead of this now and agree suitable disciplinary procedures for transgressing which are after all changing public health guidelines that every citizen, business, organisation and hospital in the state are struggling to adhere to on a daily, weekly, & monthly basis. (most especially when the guidance changes).

              Otherwise, they might as well accept now that they'll be resigning every minister and person of significance at some stage, just to cow tow to the 'outraged ' mob , amplified by hyper media outlets. And this country will go backwards at a faster (R) rate than any blooming pandemic!!
              ____________________________________________
              Munster were great when they were Munster.

              alas they are just north munster now.......
              ____________________________________________

              Comment


                Originally posted by Daithi View Post

                Can't agree sorry. What was the outcome, losing an apparently very capable minister because of a minor infraction of changing public health guidelines by the organisers & hotel.

                It is a gross over reaction imho, destabilising a government in emergency times to appease the' outrage 'mob.

                he should have apologised, promised that it would never happen again and the government should have united on same and got on with the important business of actually running the country.

                Instead all Ireland has got out of this, is instability in an emergency (pubic health & Brexit) = a woeful outcome.
                On what basis do you think he was "an apparently very capable minister" ?? He was unproven as a senior minister - his only record being as a junior minister (x2) and vriefly chief whip. His obvious petulance at being left out of a ministerial role in initial cabinet would in my opinion deem him unsuitable. Being a fog horn on the opposition bench isnt a qualification as those who observed Shane Ross' terms in office might point to.....

                "I've got lots of potatos that need peeling and manure that needs shovelling" -M. Burns :_skull__rvmp_by_bad

                Comment


                  Originally posted by The Last Stand View Post

                  Yep. And now they (media and the mob) want the Commissioner to resign which will be shooting ourselves in the foot. It seems he is on dodgy ground as apparently he has been staying in Kildare.
                  He'll brazen it out as he's not a government minister. There's nothing the government can do to sanction him. That's up to the President of the EU Commission or the EU Parliament and I'm not sure they'll be too bothered about it.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by SkullinPints View Post

                    On what basis do you think he was "an apparently very capable minister" ?? He was unproven as a senior minister - his only record being as a junior minister (x2) and vriefly chief whip. His obvious petulance at being left out of a ministerial role in initial cabinet would in my opinion deem him unsuitable. Being a fog horn on the opposition bench isnt a qualification as those who observed Shane Ross' terms in office might point to.....
                    Fair enough, I'm not political so I'm just accepting his credentials mostly based on his record and experience and his presentation of himself & his brief through the media, in which he's always been very solid imho.

                    But on the wider point which is far more important Imho, the government's leadership need to get ahead of this now and agree a protocol of sanctions ASAP, otherwise all Ireland will get from all this wasted effort is a destabilised & undermined government in the face of two massive crises (covid & Brexit) and as a nation we simply can't afford that....

                    Like really can't.
                    ____________________________________________
                    Munster were great when they were Munster.

                    alas they are just north munster now.......
                    ____________________________________________

                    Comment


                      The messaging since FFG took over has been a bit all over the place.

                      As much as I'm not fan of FG, at least there was consistent messaging from them, and it seemed to go from the top down. People rightfully look for leadership during this time, and expect their TDs and Ministers to reinforce the narrative, not ignore it.

                      Presuming all TDs and Ministers were aware of the change in guidelines, then yes, it's absolutely a resigning / sacking matter if they deliberately ignore those guidelines.
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                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Daithi View Post

                        Fair enough, I'm not political so I'm just accepting his credentials mostly based on his record and experience and his presentation of himself & his brief through the media, in which he's always been very solid imho.

                        But on the wider point which is far more important Imho, the government's leadership need to get ahead of this now and agree a protocol of sanctions ASAP, otherwise all Ireland will get from all this wasted effort is a destabilised & undermined government in the face of two massive crises (covid & Brexit) and as a nation we simply can't afford that....

                        Like really can't.
                        Far too late for agreeing a protocol of sanctions. They set the standard, and it is a high one, by telling Michael Cawley to resign or be sacked for a less serious transgression than what took place on Wednesday night.

                        Apparently the Gardaí are investigating what went on last Wednesday night. Are we going to have Gardaí interviewing a European Commissioner, a former Government Minister already forced to resign over the events they are investigating, a Supreme Court Judge and several members of the Oireachtas?



                        Comment


                          Originally posted by glorob View Post

                          Far too late for agreeing a protocol of sanctions. They set the standard, and it is a high one, by telling Michael Cawley to resign or be sacked for a less serious transgression than what took place on Wednesday night.

                          Apparently the Gardaí are investigating what went on last Wednesday night. Are we going to have Gardaí interviewing a European Commissioner, a former Government Minister already forced to resign over the events they are investigating, a Supreme Court Judge and several members of the Oireachtas?


                          I agree they should have set down a set of acceptable standards & likely sanctions for transgressions earlier, but they simply must do it now.

                          Otherwise, they're opening themselves up to continuing to react to probable breaches with only mob rule and the alarmist elements of the media as the agenda setters.... that's not a good or sensible way to try to run a country imho. Least of all through 2 crises.....
                          ____________________________________________
                          Munster were great when they were Munster.

                          alas they are just north munster now.......
                          ____________________________________________

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Daithi View Post

                            Fair enough, I'm not political so I'm just accepting his credentials mostly based on his record and experience and his presentation of himself & his brief through the media, in which he's always been very solid imho.

                            But on the wider point which is far more important Imho, the government's leadership need to get ahead of this now and agree a protocol of sanctions ASAP, otherwise all Ireland will get from all this wasted effort is a destabilised & undermined government in the face of two massive crises (covid & Brexit) and as a nation we simply can't afford that....

                            Like really can't.
                            Im not too political either in a party sense.
                            I agree fully ! - this government is in danger of collapsing under itself
                            - Varadkar and Coveney looking to retain trapping of previous offices
                            - Cowen/Calleary fiascoetc
                            - an incoherent set of social distancing rules
                            - an unwillingness to call out the Meat Plants (not in a blame way - but to pour resources into ensuring worker safety and by extension the community)
                            - Testing still not at 15K per day
                            - The Greens at war with themselves
                            - The government needs to recall Dail and set out firm and acceptable guidelines on Covid/Schools/Colleges/Public Transport and Sports/Social events
                            and to give Garda powers which judging by paper reports they dont have- (eg Berlin cafe BS)
                            - Martin really needs to bring Govt and Civil Service to heel with a clear level of expected behaviours




                            "I've got lots of potatos that need peeling and manure that needs shovelling" -M. Burns :_skull__rvmp_by_bad

                            Comment


                              The Republic of Status Quo. Do as we say not do as we do.
                              He's a guy who gets up at six o'clock in the morning regardless of what time it is.

                              Comment


                                this is game of thrones level game playing by Leo and FG. FF and greens are like starks to the slaughter and we will be back to polls early next year with a vaccine and global economic upturn to usher in a FG majority.
                                The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad.
                                - Salvador Dali (1904-1989)

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