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    Originally posted by Daithi View Post

    Jeez Jenta I dunno. They haven't managed the Covid-19 crisis at all well in the North, they weren't at work (but nonetheless well paid) in either NI or Westminister, for 3 years of critical Brexit negotiations, while the most important existentialist legislation for NI, since the foundation of the state was being hashed out without their input. They are a classic populist, nationalist protest party imho....
    I would agree with the rest of your post (and apply it to all Stormont politicians, with particular emphasis on the DUP who made a bad situation substantially worse), but it's not true to say Sinn Féin haven't managed the Covid crisis well up here. If anything, it was the decision of Michelle O'Neill to break with the joint messaging of OFMDFM and speak out strongly which brought significant pressure on Arlene Foster and education minister Peter Weir (also DUP) to agree to close the schools here, at a time when they were doing their damnedest to "follow the science" so long as it was the "science" coming out of Westminster and not Dublin. The handling of the pandemic certainly got off to a slow start thanks in large part to that typical DUP intransigence (which still, to coin a phrase, hasn't gone away you know), but after that first couple of weeks or so the approach became a lot more collegiate and (dare I say) competent.

    Every so often in this thread, I've seen a few references to Sinn Féin and things like body parts etc, and it's tending towards lazy stereotyping at this stage. For sure, there are still figures within the party who have shady pasts and were always embedded with the most sinister elements of the republican movement, and certain people like Adams can never be forgiven for the atrocities they've committed and/or directed. But it's also true that the character of the party/movement is clearly evolving away from that and towards a more globalist, forward thinking outlook. It is becoming populated by a younger membership with a much more progressive mindset more akin to the likes of Podemos in Spain. The process is far from complete, but I would argue that at this point, it's closer to that than to the Sinn Féin of 20 years ago.
    Tis but a scratch.

    Comment


      When you hear comments like ‘We broke the free state’ from elected representatives at count centres, it is hard to say that they aren’t the same party as 20 years ago.

      Comment


        Like I said, it's an ongoing process through which they are evolving, not a completed journey. Pick any political party and you'll be able to find utter gobsh1tes happy to run their mouths on election night. But they patently aren't the same party as they were 20 (or possibly even 10) years ago, with the retirement of Adams being one big factor but not the only one. In the south, they put themselves on the right side of the debate in the recent referendums, consistently aligning themselves with and vocally supportive of the progressive vote. The reactionary/populist nationalism with which you were grouping them above and which exerts such influence in the US, Poland, Hungary, Brazil et al certainly wouldn't have come down on the side of pro-choice or equal marriage. They've taken the same approach in the north, even though there's a large rump of their traditional electorate here who would profoundly disagree with that approach, and indeed a few of their more prominent members even left the party over the head of it to set up or join the likes of Aontú.

        Anyway, this is going well off-topic so I'll leave it there.
        Tis but a scratch.

        Comment


          Limerick city centre at lunchtime today was like nothing even happened this year. Carlton Coffee, Melt Cafe, all the coffee shops on Thomas St had loads of seats outside with no social distancing. Dozens of people sitting cheek by jowl

          I'm in two minds when I see this, firstly I think they have been earning nothing for a quarter of this year and let them try and make as much income and general happiness as they can right now. Then there's the horrible apprehension and low lying worry about another shutdown in long winter months where we are all stuck inside our houses again before we know it
          I am the million man.

          Comment


            Yup. That’s exactly what will happen. The complacency around this is going to put us right back to where we were in March.

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              1 in a million chance of catching it from the general public and way less likely to catch it outdoors where the sunlight can kill the virus in minutes. Also no new cases in Limerick in 6 days. Chill people.

              ​​​​​​It's already been stated that there won't be a other lockdown. We are prepared for a second wave and we know a lot that we didn't know in March. We have track and trace in place and next week the app gets launched. We have adequete supplies of PPE and the ability to source more and we have access to excess hospital beds if necessary.

              The virus isnt going away any time soon, so we live with it and get on with our lives.

              Comment


                I assume you see what’s happening in the US states that reopened too quickly?

                Comment


                  I find some of the discussion here fascinating, from the “HSE landgrab” (which never happened ), through “the Private Hospitals were empty” (which is demonstrably untrue) and now the “sure you’ll never get it... one in a million chance” (I honestly hope this one ages a whole lot better than the other two)

                  It’s truly fascinating...

                  Only fools and drunks argue over everything. If you don’t have a hangover the next day you’re not the drunk...

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Oldschoolsocks View Post
                    I find some of the discussion here fascinating, from the “HSE landgrab” (which never happened ), through “the Private Hospitals were empty” (which is demonstrably untrue) and now the “sure you’ll never get it... one in a million chance” (I honestly hope this one ages a whole lot better than the other two)

                    It’s truly fascinating...
                    Sorry OSS, I gotta take issue with you here.

                    The HSE took over the private hospitals, and tried to contract all the private consultants and shut their practices down. They are facts. Whether you classify that as a HSE land grab, is a matter of opinion, personally, I would. Particularly when a significant number of the private consultants had to refuse to sign up with the HSE to halt their plans.

                    Private hospitals were only 30% full on average under HSE management, that's far closer to empty than full. Also all private practices, elective surgeries, many cancer treatments & screenings were ceased. So yes hospitals were effectively "empty".

                    What 'fascinated me' is how close we came to a big government, police state in the face of this pandemic.... it was actually scary.
                    Last edited by Daithi; 24-June-2020, 22:56.
                    ____________________________________________
                    Munster were great when they were Munster.

                    alas they are just north munster now.......
                    ____________________________________________

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Daithi View Post

                      Sorry OSS, I gotta take issue with you here.

                      The HSE took over the private hospitals, and tried to contract all the private consultants and shut their practices down. They are facts. Whether you classify that as a HSE land grab, is a matter of opinion, personally, I would. Particularly when a significant number of the private consultants had to refuse to sign up with the HSE to halt their plans.

                      Private hospitals were only 30% full on average under HSE management, that's far closer to empty than full. Also all private practices, elective surgeries, many cancer treatments & screenings were ceased. So yes hospitals were effectively "empty".

                      What 'fascinated me' is how close we came to a big government, police state in the face of this pandemic.... it was actually scary.
                      No worries Daithi, but I don’t see how anyone could see what happened as an attempt to create a ‘big government, police state’...

                      Actually, while we’re at it. think I know what a police state is, what is ‘big government’ ?
                      Last edited by Oldschoolsocks; 25-June-2020, 05:59.
                      Only fools and drunks argue over everything. If you don’t have a hangover the next day you’re not the drunk...

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Viigand View Post
                        I assume you see what’s happening in the US states that reopened too quickly?
                        I think I posted about that a month ago, something along the lines of it will be interesting to see what happens when Texas etc opens up. Well now we know.

                        The slightly odd thing is that whilst cases are rising rapidly, deaths seem to have levelled off. As TLS mentioned, that may be due to better healthcare, or IMHO more testing being carried out.

                        There is a certain irony that NY and NJ are now issuing quarantine orders for arrivals from Texas, Florida, NC etc. It was the other way around a few months ago.

                        Final point was a stat I saw somewhere that states who insist on facemasks in public have seen a 25% drop in cases, v an 85% increase in cases for those that don't.



                        ​​​
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                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Viigand View Post
                          I assume you see what’s happening in the US states that reopened too quickly?
                          The two situations are in no possible way comparable. We haven't opened too early. We got the virus under control after a three months of lockdown and following medical recommendations to the letter. The US had a partial short term lockdown and reopened everything simultaneously while the virus was still rampant. They never even came close to flattening the curve, never mind getting it under control.
                          Last edited by Wallyman; 25-June-2020, 07:56.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Oldschoolsocks View Post

                            No worries Daithi, but I don’t see how anyone could see what happened as an attempt to create a ‘big government, police state’...

                            Actually, while we’re at it. think I know what a police state is, what is ‘big government’ ?


                            It's what people who don't like governments call governments. Or the bits of government they don't like.


                            In the US for instance, people who don't like Big Government don't consider a military budget bigger than the next ten biggest globally combined, 1.4 million active servicemen, 800k+ reservists and another 1.6 million people supplying them to be Big Government.

                            It's a bit of a moveable feast.
                            "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                            "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                            "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Wallyman View Post

                              The two situations are in no possible way comparable. We haven't opened too early. We got the virus under control after a three months of lockdown and following medical recommendations to the letter. The US had a partial short term lockdown and reopened everything simultaneously while the virus was still rampant. They never even came close to flattening the curve, never mind getting it under control.
                              The US shot their economy in the face with literally no benefit. They're f**ked
                              Commemorate Nevin Spence here -
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                              Comment


                                Originally posted by The Last Stand View Post

                                The inconsistency is a bit maddening. Gyms and pools here are supposed to open next week but not sure how they will operate.

                                on inconsistency, they are now talking about 5000 for outdoor gatherings from September. But 5000 in Donnybrook is different to 5000 in Thomond Park, Lansdowne Road and Croke Park.
                                5000 in Thomond is standard pro14 attendance...
                                Commemorate Nevin Spence here -
                                http://www.mycharity.ie/event/munste..._nevin_spence/

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