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Irish General Election 2020: It's Show Time!

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    What a difference a week makes hey !?!.....


    Now that the reality is sinking in that the vast majority of Irish people actually voted for a Ff, FG & G government first, and everything else after, is finally sinking in, I notice the media discourse has changed somewhat...

    Yes, forming a government is likely to be slow & tortuous, but building one with 85 seats at least should dictate that it can govern for ~ a full term.

    With 3 out of 4 voters not voting for SF, and they, and their policies being toxic for a lot of the electorate, the other dail parties, law&order, and even the republic itself, I'm delighted to see them likely only on the opposition benches for the next ~5yrs anyway...

    P.s. I wonder will they actually show up for work in the republic for the next several years anyway!?, while something as trivial as the future trading relationship with the UK is being ironed out by politically engaged others, who actually partake in the parliamentary democratic process!?

    or will they do their usual, and throw all their (explosive )toys out of the proverbial pram, and cry foul from a picket line full of nasties somewhere (while cosying up to their friendly gangsters and funny money) !?!
    Last edited by Daithi; 17th-February-2020, 18:24.
    ____________________________________________
    Munster were great when they were Munster.

    alas they are just north munster now.......
    ____________________________________________

    Comment


      Originally posted by Daithi View Post
      What a difference a week makes hey !?!.....


      Now that the reality is sinking in that the vast majority of Irish people actually voted for a Ff, FG & G government first, and everything else after, is finally sinking in, I notice the media discourse has changed somewhat...

      Yes, forming a government is likely to be slow & tortuous, but building one with 85 seats at least should dictate that it can govern for ~ a full term.

      With 3 out of 4 voters not voting for SF, and they, and their policies being toxic for a lot of the electorate, the other dail parties, law&order, and even the republic itself, I'm delighted to see them likely only on the opposition benches for the next ~5yrs anyway...

      P.s. I wonder will they actually show up for work in the republic for the next several years anyway!?, while something as trivial as the future trading relationship with the UK is being ironed out by politically engaged others, who actually partake in the parliamentary democratic process!?

      or will they do their usual, and throw all their (explosive )toys out of the proverbial pram, and cry foul from a picket line full of nasties somewhere (while cosying up to their friendly gangsters and funny money) !?!
      I'd love SF to get into government to watch you self combust on here! lol
      Life is good

      Comment


        Originally posted by Daithi View Post
        What a difference a week makes hey !?!.....


        Now that the reality is sinking in that the vast majority of Irish people actually voted for a Ff, FG & G government first, and everything else after, is finally sinking in, I notice the media discourse has changed somewhat...

        Yes, forming a government is likely to be slow & tortuous, but building one with 85 seats at least should dictate that it can govern for ~ a full term.

        With 3 out of 4 voters not voting for SF, and they, and their policies being toxic for a lot of the electorate, the other dail parties, law&order, and even the republic itself, I'm delighted to see them likely only on the opposition benches for the next ~5yrs anyway...

        P.s. I wonder will they actually show up for work in the republic for the next several years anyway!?, while something as trivial as the future trading relationship with the UK is being ironed out by politically engaged others, who actually partake in the parliamentary democratic process!?

        or will they do their usual, and throw all their (explosive )toys out of the proverbial pram, and cry foul from a picket line full of nasties somewhere (while cosying up to their friendly gangsters and funny money) !?!
        That attitude is exactly what SF want to hear. Not only did SF get the most 1st preference votes but there's a sizeable cohort of potential supporters who didn't vote for them this time because they didn't want to waste their votes on a small party or they flirted with the idea but opted against out of doubts. People like you telling them they're idiots who haven't s clue what they want will fire them up and is marvellous free propaganda for SF.
        So, Daithi, keep up the good work.

        Comment


          I think it would be great if the Dáil sitting on Thursday panned out as follows:

          Snoddy (or some other Shinner) "I propose Deputy McDonald as Taoiseach"

          Varadkar: "Fair enough"

          Martin: "Grand Mary Lou, off with you"

          That would cause a certain looseness in the Bowel area of the Deputy for Dublin Central.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Daithi View Post

            With 3 out of 4 voters not voting for SF, and they, and their policies being toxic for a lot of the electorate, the other dail parties, law&order, and even the republic itself, I'm delighted to see them likely only on the opposition benches for the next ~5yrs anyway...
            This post aged pretty poorly overnight in general! But specifically, presuming you count yourself among the people who consider SF policies to be "toxic", could you describe which of their policies comes across that poorly?
            "It’s not the team you support, it’s the club you should support. The team on the pitch will ebb and flow because that’s the nature of sport. No team has ever been successful decade on decade. The club has the history and that’s the passion you should have."

            Comment


              Originally posted by Jenta View Post

              This post aged pretty poorly overnight in general! But specifically, presuming you count yourself among the people who consider SF policies to be "toxic", could you describe which of their policies comes across that poorly?
              Not answering for Daithi - but my own take -

              A commitment to resolve the Health crisis - good luck with that! Maybe not toxic ....but realistic? - give me a break!

              A commitment to built 100K houses - Do you know the actual unit price per local authority house? - Also where will they get the workforce / land to deliver?

              Their taxation policies will just result in a flight of capital, jobs and investment - we will witness further raids on private pension funds etc.

              The abandonment of the Special Criminal Court - the SCC has served the state well in Organized Crime and antiTerrorism - I acknowledge it has had wrongful convictions - Nicky Kelly back in 70s springs to mind - but in latterly cant recall others

              Speaking of law and order - where were they for Maria Cahill? A name that their supporters hold dear (as in Joe) but no truth and reconciliation for her!

              Watching Mary Travers describe the murder of her sister (and attempted murder of her mother and father) on Claire Byrne last night all I could think was where was David Cullinane ?and would he stand up in front of her shouting up the "'RA!" - people elected can be overjoyed but it is significant to see which gallery he was playing to ...pretty toxic to me

              They are countering these stories with moral relativism and whataboutery - just like all those South Armagh diesel laundering plants - they are involved in green-washing

              BTW nowhere in Daithis post did I see him attribute stupidity or idiocy to those who voted for SF! There were many good reasons to vote against the arrogance and policies of FF/FG - not least their hubris - but strange how it didnt happen in 2011/16 through the worst part of the recovery program

              Arrogance isnt restricted to FF/FG - SF have displayed incredible arrogance in claiming that 24% = Clear mandate for them in government and that FF have some obligation to go into talks with them. PR-STV seems lost on them.

              And while this 24% may increase if we go to polls again - but it could decrease too - Local/European / Presidential elections were not a happy time for SF

              My own take in a perverse way I would like to see this SF coalition of the left go in and f**k up mightily or fail to deliver or both.... but I have children and that is a Trumpian experiment too far right now. Why am I anti SF - guess it is still Warrington and the human proxie b*mbs of the 80s - some memories dont fade
              "I've got lots of potatos that need peeling and manure that needs shovelling" -M. Burns :_skull__rvmp_by_bad

              Comment


                Originally posted by SkullinPints View Post

                Not answering for Daithi - but my own take -
                I don't necessarily disagree with a lot of what you are saying here, but it really is a rejection of SF as a political entity as opposed to a rejection of their policies.

                The house building policy is simply an acknowledgement of the economic reality of a housing shortage. We built over 20,000 houses last year but it is still falling short of the c25,000 the Central Bank says we need to meet demand. My worry here from an SF point of view is that they view the solution as simply "building houses" rather than building sustainable communities. That's not strictly an SF issue though, planning in Ireland has been a shambles for a lot longer than they've been a big party.

                I wouldn't view their taxation policy as anything particularly radical. In fact it reads to me like anyone on under €100k would benefit given their intention to abolish the lower USC band and their (not at all left wing) intention to abolish property tax and water charges. The introduction of wealth taxation (which they are vague on) is simply the way the world needs to go - wealth inequality is a massive challenge facing the West in general.

                The SCC has existed on extremely shaky constitutional grounds for years now. I'm not necessarily in favour of it continuing in its current form. Although I would question the motives of SF in seeking to abolish it.

                Overall their policy platform (low income and middle class tax breaks, a focus on increased policing, house building, health reform) was more centrist populism than the radical left agenda it has been painted as. Were I able to separate them from their violent past (which is still something I have not managed) my issue with SF would be based more on the fact that, aside from a few more prominent TDs, they don't seem to be a group capable on delivering on the bigger ticket items. I also have major issues with the nature of a populist protest movement, but that's a different conversation.
                "It’s not the team you support, it’s the club you should support. The team on the pitch will ebb and flow because that’s the nature of sport. No team has ever been successful decade on decade. The club has the history and that’s the passion you should have."

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Jenta View Post

                  This post aged pretty poorly overnight in general! But specifically, presuming you count yourself among the people who consider SF policies to be "toxic", could you describe which of their policies comes across that poorly?
                  Their Corbynist take on Israel, Venezuela, Shannon airport, blind push for 32 county reunification vote, abolishment of property tax yet vilification of landlords, complete contradiction of health policy, more beds, more consultants, yet they'll tax the arse out any consultants pay, hire nurses yet give into every Trade unions demands, think the HSE budget is mad now...
                  Nulla semper amicus, servivit mihi, in iniuriam mihi neminem quem non persolvi

                  Comment


                    Those complaining about the SF vote need to wake up to what has happened in our society since the crash. Too many people have bee frozen out of our society's social contract.

                    The main barrier to social stability and to economic growth is our inability to house workers earning less than €40k pa in the main urban centres where they work.

                    If this is not resolved in the next five years then Sinn Fein will win an absolute majority at the next general election and will dominate our politics for the next 30 years much like FF did in the latter part of the 20th century.

                    As for SF Health policy, it has already been decided and it has all-party agreement. (FG signed up to it too but hamstrung its implementation and caved in to the Opus Dei elements in the Health Department, even conceding ownership of the new national maternity hospital to the catholic church. Why? I have no idea.)

                    So the consultants know what's coming down the track under SlainteCare whether it's Wilie O'Dea, Roisin Shortall or Dessie Ellis sitting across the table. SF foreign policy is barely relevant in the EU.


                    Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2020.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Jenta View Post

                      I don't necessarily disagree with a lot of what you are saying here, but it really is a rejection of SF as a political entity as opposed to a rejection of their policies.

                      The house building policy is simply an acknowledgement of the economic reality of a housing shortage. We built over 20,000 houses last year but it is still falling short of the c25,000 the Central Bank says we need to meet demand. My worry here from an SF point of view is that they view the solution as simply "building houses" rather than building sustainable communities. That's not strictly an SF issue though, planning in Ireland has been a shambles for a lot longer than they've been a big party.

                      I wouldn't view their taxation policy as anything particularly radical. In fact it reads to me like anyone on under €100k would benefit given their intention to abolish the lower USC band and their (not at all left wing) intention to abolish property tax and water charges. The introduction of wealth taxation (which they are vague on) is simply the way the world needs to go - wealth inequality is a massive challenge facing the West in general.

                      The SCC has existed on extremely shaky constitutional grounds for years now. I'm not necessarily in favour of it continuing in its current form. Although I would question the motives of SF in seeking to abolish it.

                      Overall their policy platform (low income and middle class tax breaks, a focus on increased policing, house building, health reform) was more centrist populism than the radical left agenda it has been painted as. Were I able to separate them from their violent past (which is still something I have not managed) my issue with SF would be based more on the fact that, aside from a few more prominent TDs, they don't seem to be a group capable on delivering on the bigger ticket items. I also have major issues with the nature of a populist protest movement, but that's a different conversation.
                      Some of what you say is true - I dont deny an abhorrence of their past (and present eg Dessie Ellis). Maybe they will come in from the cold - but atrocities aside - their long standing claim was that Ireland - 26 county state had no legitimacy, that their army was the legitimate army and that anyone who disagreed with them was a traitor.... I dont think the leopard has changed its spots too much,
                      And their 32 county policy is downright dangerous - if people think 1m+ Unionists will slip quietly into an All-Ireland state ?? I dont think there is the slightest appetite for that outside their core constituency which is a lot less than the 24%

                      I also agree their leadership is v thin based on past performances only Pearse and Mary Lou herself and maybe De Broin stand out to me as being somewhat competent (but hey we had Harris Lowry Murphy and any number of piss poor FF ministers in the past too).

                      Housing needs to be tackled - it is the sweeping grandiose "we can fix all "policy that I find unbelievable (hence my secret desire to see them hang themselves on this one)
                      Aside: The previous FF? policy where new house devs had to have a certain % of social units needs to be reenacted and not diluted.
                      A housing policy that combines green agendas with Town and city living to revitalize inner cities with good quality affordable and good facilities like parks/transport and urban renewal of semi-derelict areas would be one idea of joined up thinking (I do hope Green Party get in to power)

                      Raiding private pension funds and reducing the pension cap from 2 - 1.2m is straight hit on those who have saved within the tax code for their future (a future where many wont get much back in state pension despite all promises of 65 age being restored) - interesting to see how this plays out as public pensions to Guards Civil servants etc need approx 1.8m to fund (based on actuarial reviews) so - will these get hit in a similiar way?

                      Anyway - we live in interesting times.....

                      Will SF get in ? I dont think so - on current results - but think a second poll looks ever more likely (FF v FG !!) ............. and then who knows???

                      "I've got lots of potatos that need peeling and manure that needs shovelling" -M. Burns :_skull__rvmp_by_bad

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Jenta View Post



                        ...I wouldn't view their taxation policy as anything particularly radical. In fact it reads to me like anyone on under €100k would benefit given their intention to abolish the lower USC band and their (not at all left wing) intention to abolish property tax and water charges. The introduction of wealth taxation (which they are vague on) is simply the way the world needs to go - wealth inequality is a massive challenge facing the West in general...
                        At face value or in principle perhaps, but this is a good example of them exposing themselves as pure chancers. At one point it was practically in the same breath that the MaryLou said she would incentivise all the surgeons back to Éire and would dramtically increase the income tax on those earning consultant size salaries. They're not proving particularly adept at thinking things through with coherent plans - in the socio/political/economic context anyway. At least they don't portray that very well once you scratch gently beneath the artificial varnish.

                        I'm not saying I have any particular confidence in any of the muppets on offer as they consistently prove ham fisted in most areas. However, the SFers have really latched on to the strategy of spout bull and hope the public laps it up without any intellectual scrutiny.

                        Mind you, it seems to have been a successful strategy around the world again recently.
                        Last edited by Salty Dog; 18th-February-2020, 15:29.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by SkullinPints View Post

                          Aside: The previous FF? policy where new house devs had to have a certain % of social units needs to be reenacted and not diluted.
                          A housing policy that combines green agendas with Town and city living to revitalize inner cities with good quality affordable and good facilities like parks/transport and urban renewal of semi-derelict areas would be one idea of joined up thinking (I do hope Green Party get in to power)
                          Part V was initially a FF programme alright. It was watered down to begin with but was neutered even further to a large extent by FG in 2015. It should absolutely get more attention because it is a genuinely good idea if carried through. It's not enough on its own but it does encourage the integration of social units into private developments, preventing the growth of major sink estates. Unfortunately it has amounted to little more than lip service to a problem from people without the backbone to stand up and back decent policy.
                          "It’s not the team you support, it’s the club you should support. The team on the pitch will ebb and flow because that’s the nature of sport. No team has ever been successful decade on decade. The club has the history and that’s the passion you should have."

                          Comment


                            The Soldiers of Destiny's Child secretly covet the idea of a blind date with Mary Lou. But they're scared what the neighbours might think.

                            Comment


                              Another mess for the Shinners, putting one foot in after another....

                              Jewish council condemns Réada Cronin remarks

                              https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/202...onin-comments/
                              "There are a lot of points that we’ve left behind and this is with a young group. That probably tells you what they’re capable of and that they’re a very good side.

                              Probably next year or the year after next they will take some stopping"

                              Anthony Foley, May 2016. Axel RIP

                              Comment


                                Don't think this ones going to have any long term impact to be honest
                                "Some people don't know their easy lives... I wouldn't be so ungrateful" - Fiacre Ryan - #AutismAndMe

                                Comment

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