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Irish General Election 2020: It's Show Time!

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    Originally posted by Daithi View Post

    Look, the least worst manifestos were imho from FF & FG imho. However I accept, trust issues with FF running the country again, and that FG had gone stale. Their goof ups were building in number & frequency....

    SF's manifesto is a populist disgrace. It doesn't add up, is soft on crime, e.g. they want to disassemble the very necessary special criminal court. They're run by an unelected high command, funded by dubiously attained funds, with many Irish citizens, garda & defence force personnel intimidated or harmed garnering these veryfunds e.g. Gerry McCabe, Northern Bank robbery and Quinn shake downs , all come to mind. In short, they're Trouble.

    Their La has come and unfortunately it's on our watch!!
    They went +36 seats in the Dail in 20 years.That's a lot of seats in a short space of time given who we are talking about. I genuinely wonder what people actually want when they vote. If most people had taken into consideration SF's manifesto and some of their figures not a hope they'd get anywhere near a first preference vote.
    He's a guy who gets up at six o'clock in the morning regardless of what time it is.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post



      I'm genuinely sceptical about the idea that the Army Council still controls SF in any meaningful way. That said, I'm not even saying I'd vote for them myself.

      My issue is just with the particular way that the British press (and many in Ireland) address the issue.

      I think the long term future of both ends of the Island is best served economically and socially by unification (rather than obliteration :-) ), so SF's commitment to that isn't so much of an issue for me.

      This really makes me weep Balla. Its obvious from your posts on here over many years that you are politically astute and aware. How in the name of all that is holy can you think that PIRA has just disappeared? Have you not heard of Paul Quinn, have you not read anything about what has happened at Quinn Industrial Holdings and to Keven Lunney. Unlike other gangland activities in the past 20 years NOBODY has been arrested for any of these offences. That is not because of sloppy police work or sloppy prosecutions. It is because of a culture of omerta that exists around the PIRA and its activities. The Army Council is alive and well, as deluded and arrogant as it ever was. There is ZERO evidence to suggest that that the previous connection between the Army Council and Sinn Fein Ard Choimhairle has ended (other than the accepted view that the current President of SF is not a member of the Army Council unlike the previous one).

      Peader Tobin when he left Sinn Fien after their stance on the 8th was very clear that TDs had little or no influence on party policy and that this was driven by "unelected people in the North". I don't say that to defend the views of Peader Tobin but to defend his right as an elected representative of a political party to have an input on the policy platform of that party.

      Its all "change" and "gubberment of the peppel" stuff today but if the wind shifts the next manifesto or even the next programme for government will be "take down the fake news media" and "jail the collaborating imperialist scum" and there will be very little that the 37 people elected across the republic under the SF banner on Saturday can do about it regardless of what their constituents might say in strongly worded emails.

      Comment


        Signed: The very concerned Holy Sisters of the Assumptions.
        Stand up for the Ulcer men

        Comment


          Originally posted by Wallyman View Post

          They topped so many polls because they only had one candidate in most constituencies. In quite a lot of those constituencies FF and/or FG got more first preference votes, but they were spread around multiple candidates. At the end of the day they only left 6 or 7 seats behind by not running enough candidates. If they run more candidates outside of Dublin and Waterford next time they'll split their vote and risk losing seats as none of the other surpluses were enough to bring in a second candidate.
          I agree and it’s also about momentum- the story of the election was written by the time the second seat in every constituency was filled- they managed to give the impression of a landslide without ever seriously offering the possibility of being in government alone. I believe, like others on here that there are bloody hands pulling the strings, of the political effort and organised crime, but dont imagine for a moment that these are only the older battle hardened grandfathers, there is a wedge of very intelligent astute strategists behind this, and the party machines of the traditional parties are carts and horses by comparison.

          I hope good will come out of this. If it did then, despite my feelings, I would embrace it, but I do not expect it to come from SF, but from radical reform of the traditional parties.

          Comment


            Political spin is so transparently self serving it's risible.
            This is reality: FF don't want to go into gov with SF because it'll be as equals which will elevate SF at FF's cost
            They don't want confidence and supply with FG because that didn't work for them.
            FG have collapsed since 2011 and opposition is best for them - let others answer the hard questions and get the blame.
            They'd both love SF to cobble together a liquorish all sorts coalition but even SF are not that stupid.
            Nothing looks good for the Tweedles and looks like no way out.
            General election? There be dragons.
            Stand up for the Ulcer men

            Comment


              My bet is a FF/Green/SocDem/Rural Independent minority govt with C&S from FG.

              7 FF Ministers (incl Taoiseach, Finance, Foreign Affairs, Justice and Enterprise), 3 Green (incl Transport, Public Ex and Energy/Climate), 1/2 SocDem (Health and maybe one of Housing, Social Protection or Education), 2/3 independents (perhaps Ag and dedicated rural affairs)

              SocDems may be able to attract in 3/4 like minded independents in that scenario if it meant being able to secure a second public service ministry and a super junior for housing (Connolly, Canney, McNamara, Collins, Berry etc).

              Comment


                I don't think FG can afford to be in any gov for at least 1 cycle. They'll be walloped at the polls if so.
                BTW, be mad to give the Greens transport albeit they'd love it. They'd have a metro tunnel to the Aran Islands before you could say Peig Sayers.
                Last edited by tippete7trees; 14th-February-2020, 09:39.
                Stand up for the Ulcer men

                Comment


                  'Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100...
                  If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this...

                  The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
                  The fifth would pay £1.
                  The sixth would pay £3.
                  The seventh would pay £7..
                  The eighth would pay £12.
                  The ninth would pay £18.
                  The tenth man (the richest) would pay £59.

                  So, that's what they decided to do..

                  The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve ball.

                  "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by £20". Drinks for the ten men would now cost just £80.

                  The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes.

                  So the first four men were unaffected.

                  They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men?
                  The paying customers?

                  How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?

                  They realised that £20 divided by six is £3.33. But if they
                  subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

                  So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.

                  And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving).

                  The sixth now paid £2 instead of £3 (33% saving).

                  The seventh now paid £5 instead of £7 (28% saving).
                  The eighth now paid £9 instead of £12 (25% saving).

                  The ninth now paid £14 instead of £18 (22% saving).

                  The tenth now paid £49 instead of £59 (16% saving).

                  Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings.

                  "I only got a pound out of the £20 saving," declared the sixth man.

                  He pointed to the tenth man,"but he got £10!"

                  "Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a pound too. It's unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!"

                  "That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get £10 back, when I got only £2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

                  "Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "we didn't get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!"

                  The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

                  The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

                  And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works.

                  The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction.

                  Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore.

                  In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.'

                  David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
                  Professor of Economics.
                  ____________________________________________
                  Munster were great when they were Munster.

                  alas they are just north munster now.......
                  ____________________________________________

                  Comment


                    With FF at 38, FG 35 & the Greens at 12, those 3 parties clearly have a democratic mandate to form a government.

                    I just hope they take it.
                    ____________________________________________
                    Munster were great when they were Munster.

                    alas they are just north munster now.......
                    ____________________________________________

                    Comment


                      That "ten beerdrinkers" story is some amount of bullshit.
                      Tis but a scratch.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by mr chips View Post
                        That "ten beerdrinkers" story is some amount of bullshit.
                        Pints on you so ;)

                        ____________________________________________
                        Munster were great when they were Munster.

                        alas they are just north munster now.......
                        ____________________________________________

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Daithi View Post
                          With FF at 38, FG 35 & the Greens at 12, those 3 parties clearly have a democratic mandate to form a government.

                          I just hope they take it.
                          So do I as it will allow SF to get more candidates into the field for the next election.
                          Excellence is hard to keep quite - Sherrie Coale

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by McCloud View Post

                            So do I as it will allow SF to get more candidates into the field for the next election.
                            where ~5 years of hopefully a productive government and country will have addressed the current key issues of housing & health, while keeping the economy well run & regulated. That would be a good outcome imho.


                            p.s. not to mention basic things like law & order, not hindering criminal courts, tackling organised crime and not intimidating garda & citizens for your own pet causes , etc etc etc which will all evolve unhindered without the shinners hopefully...
                            Last edited by Daithi; 14th-February-2020, 19:45.
                            ____________________________________________
                            Munster were great when they were Munster.

                            alas they are just north munster now.......
                            ____________________________________________

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Daithi View Post

                              where ~5 years of hopefully a productive government and country will have addressed the current key issues of housing & health, while keeping the economy well run & regulated. That would be a good outcome imho.


                              p.s. not to mention basic things like law & order, not hindering criminal courts, tackling organised crime and not intimidating garda & citizens for your own pet causes , etc etc etc which will all evolve unhindered without the shinners hopefully...
                              I take it your not referring to Fine Fail or Fine Gale who after all have managed to provide us collectively with the current disaster we have in Health and Housing over many years?
                              Excellence is hard to keep quite - Sherrie Coale

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Daithi View Post
                                With FF at 38, FG 35 & the Greens at 12, those 3 parties clearly have a democratic mandate to form a government.

                                I just hope they take it.
                                Political suicide for the greens.
                                They would be mad to accept the offer
                                Life is good

                                Comment

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