Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Irish General Election 2020: It's Show Time!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Originally posted by Rebel Yell View Post

    So many ironies in this election
    Homelessness and Health are not priorities
    Er….

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/poli...ters-1.4146920

    Nice work lumping the Greens in with the Healy Raes and Michael Lowry too. They literally could not be more different.

    "It’s not the team you support, it’s the club you should support. The team on the pitch will ebb and flow because that’s the nature of sport. No team has ever been successful decade on decade. The club has the history and that’s the passion you should have."

    Comment


      Originally posted by blackwarrior View Post
      Sinn Fein's results and subsequent behaviour already making waves. (Owen Polley is a conservative commentator as far as I know). He has a point.


      https://capx.co/sinn-feins-success-h...35ac-241842337
      Ah here. You're quoting commentary from a political spectrum a few levels more extreme and dangerous than the Shinners there.

      What the likes of the "Up the Ra" TD show is that while Sinn Fein have some impressive politicians in the front bench, beneath that they're filled by a raggle of lads you wouldn't put in charge of a pub team. They have much more depth in the Northern part of the party, and ironically more level headed and reasonable members. That will start to tell when they need to go on the defensive and get some more profile.

      Whichever group decide to go into government with SF will cleverly insist that they (SF) take the housing and health jobs. When people are still dying on trollies and streets next winter, and they have an unstable majority willing to throw them under the bus at the first chance, they'll struggle for face.



      ​​​
      "There are probably more annoying things than being hectored about African development by a wealthy Irish rock star in a cowboy hat, but I can't think of one at the moment"

      Paul Theroux

      Comment


        Originally posted by busby View Post

        Ah here. You're quoting commentary from a political spectrum a few levels more extreme and dangerous than the Shinners there.

        What the likes of the "Up the Ra" TD show is that while Sinn Fein have some impressive politicians in the front bench, beneath that they're filled by a raggle of lads you wouldn't put in charge of a pub team. They have much more depth in the Northern part of the party, and ironically more level headed and reasonable members. That will start to tell when they need to go on the defensive and get some more profile.

        Whichever group decide to go into government with SF will cleverly insist that they (SF) take the housing and health jobs. When people are still dying on trollies and streets next winter, and they have an unstable majority willing to throw them under the bus at the first chance, they'll struggle for face.

        ​​​
        I posted because of the article, not the commentator who wrote it. The point is that Ireland has earned a reputation as a dynamic, tolerant country in recent years. Sinn Fein’s behviour since the count has damaged that. If they're going to continue, even in the early days, with the likes of Cullinane's behaviour, they're sending the country backwards at a rate of knots.


        "I don't believe in fairytales," O'Connell once told me, "even though it feels like I've been lucky enough to live through a few. However it ends, I'll feel lucky."
        Donald McRae, Guardian Rugby, October 2015

        Comment


          Originally posted by blackwarrior View Post

          I posted because of the article, not the commentator who wrote it. The point is that Ireland has earned a reputation as a dynamic, tolerant country in recent years. Sinn Fein’s behviour since the count has damaged that. If they're going to continue, even in the early days, with the likes of Cullinane's behaviour, they're sending the country backwards at a rate of knots.

          I think that's fair. They are backward pointing neanthradels, whose budget arithmetic didn't even nearly add up.

          the only good thing to come from this election is that they didn't win enough seats for an overall majority. If ,as Busby has said, whoever goes into coalition with them gives them the heavy lifting briefs of housing & health, which they were crying out for, and assumedly they prove unable to improve them (highly likely imho), more likely top absolutely derail them imho, then hopefully we'll see an electorate get sense next time and send them back to the back benches...

          Nonetheless, tbh I really worry for Ireland right now, this development will wound the country's progress on so many levels imho.... e.g. law & order, economically, health, housing , fdi, tourism, Brexit & EU and common purpose....
          Last edited by Daithi; 11th-February-2020, 22:06.
          ____________________________________________
          Munster were great when they were Munster.

          alas they are just north munster now.......
          ____________________________________________

          Comment


            I love all the holier than thou comments here. I bet at least half of you have drunkenly belted out come out y black and tans in some pub at one time or another.

            It's like an episode of The Simpsons - wont somebody think of the children.

            btw i never voted for SF in my life till this election (didn't get 1st preference either) but I dont think it's a bad thing to shake things up. FF/FG were so stale even the birds were put off from eating their mouldy bread. They need to get their heads out of their arses and stop pandering to vested interests.
            Life is good

            Comment


              Originally posted by McCloud View Post

              Liebour are dead in the water about to suffer the same fate as the PD's - with any luck.
              Finally after 1000 years of posting McCloud is 100% correct. Labour is extinct, pining for the fjords.
              The thing is, the Oirish Labour party never had a future. International Atheist Socialism never was a fit for the Irish working class (and rural) mentality which is a mix of egalitarianism, begrudgery, slieveenology, strokeology, generosity for the underdog and rosary beads. FF was closest to that but fatally in the pockets of bankers and head in the sand over NI issue. SF is a sort of Irish socialism and Labour can kiss goodbye to relevancy. Come out ye Black and Tans resonates more than The Internationale.

              Comment


                Whatever SF are they're cute and there's no chance whatsoever they're serious about a raggle raggle gypsy coalition of small parties and half mad Independents. That's a negotiating ploy to soften FF up because such a coalition would facilitate SF in manipulating a new election which is the last thing FF need.
                The reality is SF holds all the cards and sometimes you just have to accept you're beat and plan from there.
                Of course they won't do that and will end up coalescing with the other no hopers FG in the end.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by blackwarrior View Post
                  Sinn Fein's results and subsequent behaviour already making waves. (Owen Polley is a conservative commentator as far as I know). He has a point.


                  https://capx.co/sinn-feins-success-h...35ac-241842337


                  It would help if he'd recognised that SF does not have an armed wing, and that the Provisional IRA ceased to be a thing 15 years ago now. The British right are having total fits about Ireland at the moment. Between Brexit negotiations and the Shinners, they don't know whether to **** or go blind.
                  "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                  "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                  "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post



                    It would help if he'd recognised that SF does not have an armed wing, and that the Provisional IRA ceased to be a thing 15 years ago now. The British right are having total fits about Ireland at the moment. Between Brexit negotiations and the Shinners, they don't know whether to **** or go blind.
                    Again, it is the headline and key points of the article that I am referring to. By the way, I presume that th eSF leadership will rein in the likes of Cullinane & co - even they must realise that it will kill the more progressive parts of the party programme.
                    "I don't believe in fairytales," O'Connell once told me, "even though it feels like I've been lucky enough to live through a few. However it ends, I'll feel lucky."
                    Donald McRae, Guardian Rugby, October 2015

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by blackwarrior View Post

                      Again, it is the headline and key points of the article that I am referring to. By the way, I presume that th eSF leadership will rein in the likes of Cullinane & co - even they must realise that it will kill the more progressive parts of the party programme.


                      I'm just not sure it's true. It's based on a very British perception of SF. The British - and the British right in particular - fundamentally don't understand the form of Nationalism in Ireland and Scotland that trends to the left politically, as they were completely isolated from the global anti-imperialist politics that dominated the IRA, PLO, ETA and others decades ago.

                      Besides which, I just don't accept the view of the illegitimacy of SFs democratic participation. If we take 1969 as the kick off point for PIRA, since then the democratically elected, ever-so-civilised British state has been involved in military action in Northern Ireland, the Falklands, Bosnia, Iraq, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Sierra Leone and Libya. And that's just the stuff that they keep on the books.

                      I'm no supporter of the IRA, but taking lectures on violence from a nuclear armed, militarily aggressive state that has demonstrated its willingness to participate in illegal wars of aggression just doesn't sit with me.

                      They had to be held back from bombing in Syria when it became clear that they weren't sure who they were bombing or why.



                      I know people have reasons to be wide about SF, and they're good ones. But with a slightly wider lens, I honestly think that Ireland should be celebrating the sort of progress that in a quarter of a century can take a violent terrorist group, bring it to the table, reach a ceasefire and standing peace arrangement, disarm it, disband it and see it commit to mainstream democratic politics.

                      There's a chunk of the British right that still talks of the GFA as an act of surrender. If these people had had their way then, no progress would have been made at all.
                      "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                      "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                      "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post



                        It would help if he'd recognised that SF does not have an armed wing, and that the Provisional IRA ceased to be a thing 15 years ago now. The British right are having total fits about Ireland at the moment. Between Brexit negotiations and the Shinners, they don't know whether to **** or go blind.
                        According ot the PSNI (in 2019) they do have an armed wing. The extent that the armed wing is actually armed and eaxctly what it has been doing / does is not clear.

                        ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

                        Originally Posted by mr chips
                        AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Daithi View Post

                          I think that's fair. They are backward pointing neanthradels, whose budget arithmetic didn't even nearly add up.

                          the only good thing to come from this election is that they didn't win enough seats for an overall majority. If ,as Busby has said, whoever goes into coalition with them gives them the heavy lifting briefs of housing & health, which they were crying out for, and assumedly they prove unable to improve them (highly likely imho), more likely top absolutely derail them imho, then hopefully we'll see an electorate get sense next time and send them back to the back benches...

                          Nonetheless, tbh I really worry for Ireland right now, this development will wound the country's progress on so many levels imho.... e.g. law & order, economically, health, housing , fdi, tourism, Brexit & EU and common purpose....
                          Who do you think had the best (well maybe least worst) manifesto? I had a major issue with SF's lack of clarity on the Special Criminal Court. In other words lets do away with it. For me the the two who appealed to me most were the SD's and the Greens.
                          He's a guy who gets up at six o'clock in the morning regardless of what time it is.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post

                            It would help if he'd recognised that SF does not have an armed wing, and that the Provisional IRA ceased to be a thing 15 years ago now. The British right are having total fits about Ireland at the moment. Between Brexit negotiations and the Shinners, they don't know whether to **** or go blind.
                            I haven't read the article being referred to and won't be wasting my time doing so, and I'd agree with your points about the British right/establishment. However you can't be serious about thinking that the Provos have ceased to be a thing. They are very real and very much in existence. Of course they don't have the capacity to run a mainland bombing campaign like the late 70s and 80s but that does not mean that SF is not a subsidiary organization which takes its direction from the PIRA Army Council. SF are NOT a normal democratic party, you can't just join and have normal level influence as an active member.

                            I'm a fairly left wing person (though I'll accept I'm more smoked salmon than militant these days). I have no problem with a radical left agenda being pursued by a democratically elected government. I don't think that it would be worse for the Irish economy in the medium term that than the radical right agenda we've been on since Bertie's first FF/PD coalition, but when it is being pursued by the agents of a movement whose publicly stated primary objective is to obliterate the state then this has to give you cause for concern.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by munstershane View Post
                              I love all the holier than thou comments here. I bet at least half of you have drunkenly belted out come out y black and tans in some pub at one time or another.

                              It's like an episode of The Simpsons - wont somebody think of the children.

                              btw i never voted for SF in my life till this election (didn't get 1st preference either) but I dont think it's a bad thing to shake things up. FF/FG were so stale even the birds were put off from eating their mouldy bread. They need to get their heads out of their arses and stop pandering to vested interests.
                              I'd safely say more than half, and I will admit to being one of them. I've also made sexist remarks when drunk (and when sober) and I've probably at some point made homophobic remarks or at the very least not challenged them when someone else has. None of that make these acceptable attitudes to bring to policy making.

                              Specifically on singing "Come Out You Black and Tans" etc. I think that the RIC issues shows that the country needs to have a real conversation about the impact of violence on Irish identity over that past 100 years. Too much of the narrative on this is dominated by pub talk and bull**** Wolfe Tone songs and not enough recognition given to the victims of violence. The cognitive dissonance is really scary. I would say 90% of people in the Republic can easily hold the contradictory thoughts that Pearse, Tom Barry and Collins are heroes while Adams and McGuinness are ruthless murderers. When they are forced to challenge the obvious problem in these thoughts the only way out is to mitigate in some way the actions of Adams/McGuinness rather than to question that actions of 1916 or the War of Independence. The country needs to be able to start having mature conversations about about the various shades of grey that all of these actions sit in and not force this highly complicated history into black and white.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by blackwarrior View Post
                                Does anyone know what was the SF percentage of the overall vote, only taking into account the constituencies where they ran candidates?
                                25.0% of valid poll. 15.6% of electorate
                                They clocked up 48 quota from 40 candidates
                                4 lost out, 3 in 3 seaters [dublin-rathdown, galway-east, limerick-county], one in a 4 seater [dun-laoghaire]

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X