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Its been a ****e World Cup - Discuss please

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    #46
    Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
    Follow on

    If one of the teams with a game less played wins the cup will it be with an asterisk in people's minds?

    I wonder what the likelihood of the sides who didn't play the final weekend of the pools all go through?
    Absolutely not for me.
    • France aren't going to win 3 test matches in a row even if you gave them another weekend off.
    • All Blacks will have virtually no advantage from skipping the Italy game. They have no had 3 weeks in Japan in hotels since their last real test match. That is a highly unusual experience for any group of players and for a group like that with massive expectation and pressure on them not having the release of a run out can't be helpful for managing mood and nerves and cabin fever.
    • England perhaps have been given a small advantage as their schedule required 5 Tier 1 test games in a row. That was a massive ask but it could be argued that it was highly unfair to begin with for a top seed. (if it was Ireland who had that schedule we'd all be complaining about a WR conspiracy.
    As for the likelihood that they all go through - SA, NZ and ENG are all favorites for those games irrespective of the week off if they all go through it wouldn't be a shock. France beating Wales - 50/50 in my view. Wales have blown hot and cold and the extra week may actually hep the Frogs for whom a weekend without a rugby game is as rare as hens teeth. The rest probably gives France a 5-10% better chance than they would have had without it.

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      #47
      Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
      Follow on

      If one of the teams with a game less played wins the cup will it be with an asterisk in people's minds?

      I wonder what the likelihood of the sides who didn't play the final weekend of the pools all go through?
      I don't think it will shape the impression of the winners. But 3 out of 4 semi finalists would raise an eyebrow I think, given the one week turnaround to the groups.

      If even one of the rested teams gets downed in the quarters I think the whole thing goes away.
      "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

      "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


      "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

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        #48
        Originally posted by AwayFromHome View Post

        Absolutely not for me.
        • France aren't going to win 3 test matches in a row even if you gave them another weekend off.
        • All Blacks will have virtually no advantage from skipping the Italy game. They have no had 3 weeks in Japan in hotels since their last real test match. That is a highly unusual experience for any group of players and for a group like that with massive expectation and pressure on them not having the release of a run out can't be helpful for managing mood and nerves and cabin fever.
        • England perhaps have been given a small advantage as their schedule required 5 Tier 1 test games in a row. That was a massive ask but it could be argued that it was highly unfair to begin with for a top seed. (if it was Ireland who had that schedule we'd all be complaining about a WR conspiracy.
        As for the likelihood that they all go through - SA, NZ and ENG are all favorites for those games irrespective of the week off if they all go through it wouldn't be a shock. France beating Wales - 50/50 in my view. Wales have blown hot and cold and the extra week may actually hep the Frogs for whom a weekend without a rugby game is as rare as hens teeth. The rest probably gives France a 5-10% better chance than they would have had without it.
        I think it gives NZ an advantage, not necessarily in this weeks game but in the semis and final, if they make it that far. Same goes for England and SA who've had roughly 2 weeks rest before the big knock out games.
        There's a lot of talk of Ire needing the Samoa game to get up to speed, but if we happen to beat the ABs we'll probably be more burned out than the likes of Eng and SA.
        If the ABs beat us, it'll be the perfect preparation for their semi.

        The teams that didn't play their last pool game also have the added bonus of not losing any players to injury/bans etc.


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          #49
          Originally posted by kahalui View Post

          I think it gives NZ an advantage, not necessarily in this weeks game but in the semis and final, if they make it that far. Same goes for England and SA who've had roughly 2 weeks rest before the big knock out games.
          There's a lot of talk of Ire needing the Samoa game to get up to speed, but if we happen to beat the ABs we'll probably be more burned out than the likes of Eng and SA.
          If the ABs beat us, it'll be the perfect preparation for their semi.

          The teams that didn't play their last pool game also have the added bonus of not losing any players to injury/bans etc.

          If they make it to the semis its odds on that they'llplay England and in that scenario the extra weeks rest will be available to both of them.

          I'd agree that if we beat NZ and have to face England that England's extra week will be an advantage to them, ditto for the Saffers against Wales (though the Saffers extra rest was already in the schedule - so this shows that the question of rests and fairness was already baked into the tournanment before any cancellations, so I still don't see the need to apply any mental astrixes to the ultimate winners as Cowboy asked - its not like the Nordies and their HEC triumph***)

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            #50
            Ulster never won the HEC. they won a different cup altogether
            Last edited by Piquet; 16th-October-2019, 13:44.

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              #51
              Originally posted by Piquet View Post
              Ulster never won the HEC. they won a different cup altogether
              You could say the same for Toulouse in 1996.
              Nulla semper amicus, servivit mihi, in iniuriam mihi neminem quem non persolvi

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                #52
                Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
                I cannot put my finger on why, it just does not seem to have the heart and romance of previous RWCs, granted we've been spoiled with some truly stunning competitions.

                I just think on the whole its been a big bucket of meh, in a land that doesn't seem to know or care its going on. Matches in steam rooms, matches liable to be called off due to an incoming typhoon. Dicey enough refereeing decisions (on another thread to be fair). Matches on at a **** time for irish viewers (not so many games on before work like)

                It may as well have been held on the moon, the expat contingent in europe, america, auz, NZ or SA would give it a bit more oomph. What paddies live in Japan? Brits, other top tier nation citizens?


                Just been a disappointment to me, am I alone?
                we need to bring world cups beyond same small number of countries. Americas be it Argentina or USA should be next. Weather causing cancelling has been poor. Sport will expand and improve in time for the better if we go beyond the relative small rxpats from these counties

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                  #53
                  Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
                  I think it's a couple of things

                  Firstly, I don't know that rugby is as beloved in Japan as it is in France England NZ and the grounds seem chock-a-block with excited locals at an event rather than die hard rugby supporters

                  Secondly, I know one person whose travelled to it, just one.

                  Thirdly, the climate has had an enormous impact on the competition at large. Not for the better imo. The lads would do better in snow than in humidity perhaps

                  Fourthly, I'm just non plussed. The competition took over England and NZ when they held it. This one feels weird and out of place in a land that mostly doesn't seem to have a clue. I think the Qatari soccer world cup might seem the same.

                  It feels like money picked the venue. Not rugby picking the venue. May as well hold it in Brasil in 8 years time kinda feeling
                  rugby may become very popular in Japan from their successes and we need more sides playing at top level so that will be worth having tournament there.
                  Climate does have an impact but that's part of a global tournament. We cant just have the same tournament in very similar places all the time. That is backwards closed thinking and doesnt help the sport develop.
                  rugby has to expand and this tournament will help do that

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                    #54
                    After watching five of a possible six games this weekend (didn't bother with Zeb v Lein), I can honestly say I was more entertained by Munster v Ospreys and especially Connacht v Cheetahs than either of the RWC semi-finals, even the Orcs v the Kiwis. As a relatively neutral onlooker, even the Ulster v Cardiff game was about on a par with Wales v SA in that regard.
                    Tis but a scratch.

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Originally posted by mr chips View Post
                      After watching five of a possible six games this weekend (didn't bother with Zeb v Lein), I can honestly say I was more entertained by Munster v Ospreys and especially Connacht v Cheetahs than either of the RWC semi-finals, even the Orcs v the Kiwis. As a relatively neutral onlooker, even the Ulster v Cardiff game was about on a par with Wales v SA in that regard.
                      In fairness the orcs v the AB's was one of the best games to have watched this world cup. To see one of the best teams in the world being dismantled by a team playing running rugby with quick ball from the break down with off loading in the tackle was wonderful and for someone who likes rugby and a neutral it was wonderful to watch.
                      Excellence is hard to keep quite - Sherrie Coale

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                        #56
                        Wales south Africa a snoozefest; ABs v England a good game but overall this tournament has been at best fair to middling if even that. But while I enjoyed Munster v Ospreys more it's still a huge step down in terms of skill and pace

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                          #57
                          Liam Napier in the Guardian on Englands response to the Haka: "It sure beats the lame attempts to drown out the haka with songs, some of which have no connection to the countries in question"
                          did he mean to say province?

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