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Its been a ****e World Cup - Discuss please

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    #16
    I agree it's been far from vintage stuff to date.

    Team Green have (other than the first 30 mins against Scotland) pretty much failed to convince, and it's quite difficult to be overly optimistic at this point.

    NZ, England and possibly RSA. Beyond those 3 it's difficult to see a winner.
    Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
    Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork!

    Comment


      #17
      Its been a ****e World Cup - Discuss please

      Up until the knock out stages, except for the odd upset, and clashes of the titans in the group(s) of death, each and every world cup has been a bit ***** in my humble opinion.

      International Rugby's top tier is too small to provide enough spectale over several weeks, blow-outs like South Africa over Canada this morning and New Zealand against Namibia on Sunday are pointless and of benefit to no one.

      And in this world cup, games between the minnows that are likely to produce a game of good rugby are on whilst European rugby fans are at work or at school.

      ​​​​​​ Something like a competition with a tier one and tier two division with two conferences each with the conference winners meeting in tier 1 and tier 2 finals might be better adapted to international Rugby's current order of teams (a fat headed snake with a very long thin tail).

      Based on today's WR rankings we'd see tier one division conferences of:

      A
      New Zealand
      England
      RSA
      France
      Scotland

      B
      Wales
      Ireland
      Australia
      Japan
      Argentina

      Four top level games and a final over 5 weekends.

      Tier two division conferences of:

      ​​​​​​A
      Fiji
      USA
      Samoa
      Spain
      Romania

      ​B
      Italy
      Georgia
      Tonga
      Uruguay
      Russia.

      Then relegation and promotion between the divisions.

      Of course I doubt we'll ever see anything like this.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by Wallyman View Post

        None of that is unique to this world cup. This is the first year that the tier 1 teams are also getting short turnaround times, so they're trying to be a bit fairer. Unless you make the tournament even longer than it is, there's no other way to get the games in. And refereeing is always an issue, not just at world cups.


        For me the scheduling is an issue, but that was no different back in 2011. I only get to see the weekend games and even then not all of the Saturday morning games, so it doesn't feel like such a big event. Most of the games being behind a paywall doesn't help either,
        I'm sure things will ramp up when it comes to the knock out stages though.
        Hopefully it changes for future competitions, there is probably a benefit for players and unions that the competition is a week shorter for financial and personal
        reasons, but when it’s only once every 4 years and the sacrifice made is immense from players it would be nice to see them given a fair go.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by lilleexile View Post
          Its been a ****e World Cup - Discuss please

          Up until the knock out stages, except for the odd upset, and clashes of the titans in the group(s) of death, each and every world cup has been a bit ***** in my humble opinion.

          International Rugby's top tier is too small to provide enough spectale over several weeks, blow-outs like South Africa over Canada this morning and New Zealand against Namibia on Sunday are pointless and of benefit to no one.

          And in this world cup, games between the minnows that are likely to produce a game of good rugby are on whilst European rugby fans are at work or at school.

          ​​​​​​ Something like a competition with a tier one and tier two division with two conferences each with the conference winners meeting in tier 1 and tier 2 finals might be better adapted to international Rugby's current order of teams (a fat headed snake with a very long thin tail).

          Based on today's WR rankings we'd see tier one division conferences of:

          A
          New Zealand
          England
          RSA
          France
          Scotland

          B
          Wales
          Ireland
          Australia
          Japan
          Argentina

          Four top level games and a final over 5 weekends.

          Tier two division conferences of:

          ​​​​​​A
          Fiji
          USA
          Samoa
          Spain
          Romania

          ​B
          Italy
          Georgia
          Tonga
          Uruguay
          Russia.

          Then relegation and promotion between the divisions.

          Of course I doubt we'll ever see anything like this.
          Ireland went from 2nd to 7th because of 1 loss?
          Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
          Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork!

          Comment


            #20
            The kick off times are the main reason that I can't seem to get into it this time round.In 2003 I had young kids and had to be up at crazy hours anyway. 2011 the early kick offs worked for also for those 2 months due to an odd set of personal circumstances. This time round I couldn't be bothered hauling my ass out of bed for France versus Tonga.

            I was thinking along the same lines as lilleexile but slightly larger. I think that as a tour schedule hasn't been agreed beyond 2020 it would be god to have 2 divisions of 16 (so 32 teams in total) and have the competition every 2 years - there is no reason to ape the soccer 4 year cycle..A 2 year cycle would skip the Olympics and FIFA WC years and would give tier 2 teams regular meaningful competition now that the Nations League idea has been binned.

            4 pools of 4 in the top competition and 4 pools of 4 in the second tier. Top competition played pools played over 3 weekends. 2nd tier played mid-week for TV and stadium usage. Top 2 sides in each main group can go on to a further round robin round ensuing each team gets 6 games.

            Bottom 2 sides from each main comp group and top 2 sides from each second tier group play for a second tier cup as the same time as the main knockout also round robin format with bottom 2 in each group being relegated to 2nd tier for the next competition. (may end up with the same 8 being "relegated" but if they are not good enough to win games against the 8-16 ranked sides then so be it)

            Comment


              #21
              Having a world competition every 2 years would mean between that and the Lions there would only be one year in four where there wasn't a major international tournament involving the top players from the northern and southern hemispheres, particularly the "home" nations. Might be one or two issues with player welfare!

              On the other hand (and seeing as we're fantasising about the international calendar), that fallow year could be allocated to a Pacific Islands equivalent of the Lions where the combined forces of Fiji, Tonga and Samoa come to play against three of the 6 Nations sides on an alternating basis. And we could create a few extra national academies to make up for all the player burnout. Moar rugby, MOAR!!!
              Tis but a scratch.

              Comment


                #22
                To Dermot G,

                I can't qoute you as I have had you on ignore for years as you're such a pompous git!

                Ireland are fourth and if you had a modicum of intelligence you would have been able to figure that out. The groups are seeded according to the current WR rankings.

                Of course rather than figure this out, your only response is to try and find fault and belittle someone with one of your patented one sentence only comments.



                Comment


                  #23
                  The times are definitely a factor and possibly because Ireland have been ****e in two matches. I think for the next RWC they will need to look at 35 man squads to shorten playing time between matches where possible. Credit must be given to our neighbours too. They do a brilliant job of major tournaments. The Olympics 12', RWC 15' and Euro 96 were all brilliant events. Japan had a big task following the last RWC.
                  He's a guy who gets up at six o'clock in the morning regardless of what time it is.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by lilleexile View Post
                    To Dermot G,

                    I can't qoute you as I have had you on ignore for years as you're such a pompous git!

                    Ireland are fourth and if you had a modicum of intelligence you would have been able to figure that out. The groups are seeded according to the current WR rankings.

                    Of course rather than figure this out, your only response is to try and find fault and belittle someone with one of your patented one sentence only comments.


                    Is Mig like really a golf correspondent?
                    Gwan Joe!!

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by mr chips View Post
                      Having a world competition every 2 years would mean between that and the Lions there would only be one year in four where there wasn't a major international tournament involving the top players from the northern and southern hemispheres, particularly the "home" nations. Might be one or two issues with player welfare!

                      On the other hand (and seeing as we're fantasising about the international calendar), that fallow year could be allocated to a Pacific Islands equivalent of the Lions where the combined forces of Fiji, Tonga and Samoa come to play against three of the 6 Nations sides on an alternating basis. And we could create a few extra national academies to make up for all the player burnout. Moar rugby, MOAR!!!
                      I've thought of that also!

                      Players can't be expected to handle being in more than 30 match day squads (starting in a max of 22, maybe more for a fullback less for an openside/THP) in a season. If there are some fallow weekends during the season this still allows for need 4-6 weeks of a full break from all rugby and 4-6 weeks of S&C pre-season.

                      How could that be best used for Irish players?
                      - Assume 5 Six Nations games and 6/7 RWC games and/or tour games in alternate years. That is max 12 games taking up 16 weekends (assuming 2 fallow weeks in 6N and 2 more in RWC/tour schedule.
                      - Subtract also the rest/pre-season period and that leaves a window of 24 weeks for sub-international competition; nailed on internationals would be available to play on about 18-20 of these weekends, fringe internationals like Beirne/Farrell would be available for all.

                      How best to use that for Irish players?
                      - I would propose a 24 week European Cup/League. Top 40 teams in Europe (Pro12+Top14+14English) in 4 pools of 10. Games played home and away (18 weeks). 9 20K+ attendances in Thomond Park for us. Playoffs with top 3 from each pool. 2 v 3 in QF playoff - winners playing pool winners in QF. (22 weeks in total; 24 if QF and SF played over 2 legs)
                      - While the international season is on we can play the Celtic League. 10 teams all without their internationals playing home and away. 18 rounds. Top of the league is the winner. (9 games sold out for us in Musgrave)
                      - I'd play the AIL at the same time as the EuroComp to allow availability of fringe provincial players (Wootton, DOS, Cronin etc). Play the provincial cups, charity cups and provincial senior leagues etc during the Celtic League window.

                      When would it all take place:
                      - Block A September to October - RWC (or incoming/outgoing tours) + Celtic League phase 1 + Provincial Senior Leagues and City Charity Cups
                      - Block B November to January - EuroComp phase 1 + AIL phase 1
                      - Block C February March - 6 Nations + Celtic League phase 2 + provincial senior cups in round robin and Bateman Cup
                      - Block D April to June - EuroComp phase 2 incl playoffs
                      - Block E late June to August - downtime and pre-season S&C

                      How would this work for the Southern Hemisphere?
                      Thanks for asking!
                      - This proposed July window is a mess, by shifting the July window to September and the November international forward to October it allows the SH to have a clean run of the February-August period to play the SuperXY and Rugby Championship in whatever configuration best suited them - 7 whole months without having to care about their northern paymasters needs.
                      - SH players would keep their summer rest period from November to January
                      - Saffers/Argies/Pacific Islanders taking some Euro in France would play the RC in July and August but would be able to take a rest during the six nations period.

                      But the French would never go for it - they love their Brennus and TV monies!
                      Its a valid point and they might need some convincing; here are some points to help them though:
                      - They could still play for the Brennus in whatever format they wanted during the 18 weeks of international window. They could ban/limit foreigners from playing in this period. They could also start earlier in August if they wanted to keep flogging young fellas in the baking sun like now.
                      - The overall value to TV companies of EuroComp + New Brennus should be greater than HEC + TOP14

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Pool games getting called off has turned this wc into a farce.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by lilleexile View Post
                          To Dermot G,

                          I can't qoute you as I have had you on ignore for years as you're such a pompous git!

                          Ireland are fourth and if you had a modicum of intelligence you would have been able to figure that out. The groups are seeded according to the current WR rankings.

                          Of course rather than figure this out, your only response is to try and find fault and belittle someone with one of your patented one sentence only comments.


                          Who?

                          p.s. Fair play for putting me on the ignore list - I'm admittedly an acquired taste. In your wonderfully thought out table you named 5 teams in the top flight, and then Wales followed by Ireland. That suggests 7th n'est pas? Seems quite reasonable.

                          One last thought - if I'm on ignore how and why did you even see what I posted?

                          Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
                          Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork!

                          Comment


                            #28
                            I think there's been both mostly good & some not so good at this RWC tbh:

                            The good:
                            -expanding the game's horizons
                            -the performances of Japan
                            -the type of rugby that's being rewarded (running,attacking rugby)
                            - the cutting down on high,late, dangerous hits
                            - general good use of tmos
                            - a good few sides can win it e.g. NZ, SA or Eng, but also Wales as an outside bet, look good imho.

                            The not so good:
                            - the cancellation of matches
                            - the stupid rules wrt cancellation of matches that RWC made up
                            -officiating of Japan in particular, and in the early rounds in general
                            - kick off times for Europeans (is it the biggest supporter base?)
                            - Ireland tanking with an excellent side in 2019 ....ugh......:(

                            Overall ,I think it's a good tournament though, but a RWC in Ireland say, with maybe 1 match in Murrayfield & 1 in Cardiff (mostly to placate our Celtic cousins) would in 'my totally unbiased' opinion be be infinitely superior imho.
                            Last edited by Daithi; 11th-October-2019, 11:10.
                            ____________________________________________
                            Munster were great when they were Munster.

                            alas they are just north munster now.......
                            ____________________________________________

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Have you guys seen this?

                              https://twitter.com/radiosportnz/sta...253839872?s=19

                              He was as lame as a duck. Not the metaphorical lame duck either, but a real duck that was actually lame. Maybe from stepping on a land mine or something.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                is that confirmed? i dont see it on world rugby site or anywhere other than a few twitter feeds
                                "Some people don't know their easy lives... I wouldn't be so ungrateful" - Fiacre Ryan - #AutismAndMe

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