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  • JN.Allezdax.com
    replied
    - Ok, gur for go if followed by past tense of regular verbs, I missed it... But, how was the d' skipped?
    - inphléasctha: That means that if I put a prefix (in) at the beginning of a word that is normally lenited without the prefix, I must anyway lenite, right? And why do you use the verbal adjective instead of the verbal noun after ar tí? I thought the english "Is about to disappear" was translated by the verbal noun...

    PS: I found a nice way to fall asleep fast: Instead of counting sheep, I think of a grammar rule in gaeilge... Immediately comes a second question about the rule I discovered behind the first one, and then is another springing up and so on, and so on... You can trust me, it works as good as the wooly animals...

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  • mr chips
    replied
    Smaoiním gur fhág mé mé féin san abar ...

    Is oth liom léamh go bhfuil d'inchinn ar tí inphléasctha - tá súil agam nach bhfuil aon nasc idir an drochdhóigh sin agus do chuid eachtraí foghlama!

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  • JN.Allezdax.com
    replied
    Smaoiním go, d'fhág mé mé ( ?) féin san abar ( féin?) (If grammatically correct, what about I have the deepest doubts)...
    Would add: Tá m'inchinn ar tí inpléascadh...
    Last edited by JN.Allezdax.com; 5-September-2020, 21:25.

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  • JN.Allezdax.com
    replied
    Ah, I understand your question. I used "go" in my phrase in english but my question concerned indeed "go", the irish conjunction. Sorry
    You answered my question anyway... And I have to forget all I learnt in french, engilsh and german and to adopt an irish complicated point of view...

    Next time, I'll choose my exemples better...
    Last edited by JN.Allezdax.com; 19-July-2020, 17:06.

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  • mr chips
    replied
    Ok, first of all for what you want to convey I will use the meaning of the English word "go" in the sense of "depart", i.e. go away (as opposed to go to). For this meaning, it's better to use the verb Imigh rather than Téigh.

    I want him to go - Ba mhaith liom go n-imeodh sé.
    However, this can be a little confusing because in this format, the past tense is identical to the present:
    I wanted him to go - Ba mhaith liom go n-imeodh sé.
    Note that the phrase "ba mhaith liom go ..." is followed by the conditional tense.

    You can also use the structure "ag iarraidh go ...", to say that you would like something to happen. This also puts the second clause of the sentence into the conditional.
    I want him to leave - Tá mé ag iarraidh go n-imeodh sé.
    I wanted him to leave - Bhí me ag iarraidh go n-imeodh sé.
    (I want the daytime temperature to get back to the July average - Tá mé ag iarraidh go bpillfeadh teocht an lae go dtí an mheán do mhí Iúil.)

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  • JN.Allezdax.com
    replied
    How do you translate "I want him to go"? "Is maith liom go dé sé"?

    In french: Je veux qu'il parte. "Qu'il parte", present of subjonctive
    In german: "Ich will, daß er geht"."daß er geht", simple present
    In english: "I want him to leave". "to leave"... D'éirigh mé as... "To leave", if I got it right, is smethinig like "A dul", isn't it?

    So is there a gramatical point for the tenses of two related propositions?

    PS: 20-25°C is perfect, but 17°C in july, a bit to low for a growing old southerner like me...
    PS2: You can all trust me, the region of Saint-Malo, Dinan, from Erquy to Dol and from the coast to Rennes is really really enjoyable. A lot to see, a lot to visit, a huge piece of History... An the jewel on the crown is the Rance maritime. Moreover a microclimate that makes the region very different from what people, especially here, think..So, ideal for irish people: Sun+ moderate temperatures.

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  • mr chips
    replied
    A soft seventeen degrees here in the cold shoulder to Britain ...

    Rud éigin is correct term for "something".

    It's probably easiest to think of the direct translation for "I like it" as "It is pleasing to me" - Is maith liom é.
    So "do you like X?" becomes "is X pleasing to you?", which translates as "An maith leat?" (NB no séibhiú for the interrogative present tense, but rather an urú where possible - an dtéann tú, an mbíonn tú, an dtig leat, srl).
    Therefore, "would you like X?" becomes "would X be pleasing to you?", i.e. the conditional tense of the above - "Ar mhaith leat?"
    NB - starting a question with "ar" always requires a séibhiú in the subsequent word, where possible.

    I'm not sure what you mean with your second question - is it about using "go bhfuil/go raibh/go mbeidh/go mbeadh" and so on?

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  • JN.Allezdax.com
    replied
    Ok, today is sunday, time to rest, to stay quiet, under a tree, with a fresh (soft?) drink... Eh bien non!!!!!!
    Was back from the countries of Dol and Saint-Malo yesterday where the weather stays so temperate and nice (20-25°C, no matter if sunny or grey, it's so beautiful) to dive back in the baking hot south of Gironde... And naturally, I have two silly questions about irish grammar...

    The first question is double..."Do you want something?"...
    - "Something"... "Rud éigin?
    - "Do you want" "Wills Du"? "Veux-tu?"... Each time, present tense...Would have written "An mhaith leat rud éigin"... But I found "Ar maith leat...". If I am ok, "Is maith liom/leat..." means I want/You want. So the interrogative form is "An mhaith liom/leat".. "Do I/you want...". And "Ar" is the interrogative form of past and conditional. Still ok? So, if I ask somebody if he wants something, why would it be "Ar mhaith leat (rud éigin?)?", and not ""An mhaith leat?
    Or is that simply because "He WOULD be pleased to get something", and the evidence does naturally not belong to the traditional irish pessimism ?..

    Second question: With the conjunction "Go", is there any sequence of tenses?

    So, between the weather and my thoughts, I let you imagine the temperature here... Surely ABSOLUTELY unbearable for irish people (At least those I know... )

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  • ustix
    replied
    Ana mheas agam ort dax.
    Fair plé duit!

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  • mr chips
    replied
    Retain your sense of optimism, a chara, and rest assured that you have no cause to quote Caesar's dying words even as I dissect some of your post (and add some details) ...

    Bí is the infinitive of the verb "to be". It's also the form used when giving an instruction, e.g. telling your barking dog to be quiet - bí ciúin! Other conjugations of the verb in the present tense include the words is and . It's also possible to use the form "bíodh", which is almost like a wish or a blessing: bíodh misneach ort - have courage (may courage be upon you). This is also the form that Star Trek's Jean Luc Picard might use to say "make it so" - "bíodh sé mar sin". The next level is akin to an instruction from God - "Go mbíodh solas ann" - let there be light!

    The simplest way to work out whether or not to use the copula (Is / Ní etc) is as I mentioned above, by checking whether you can reduce your sentence to saying that one "thing" is another "thing".
    e.g.
    She is a politician. A politician is (objectively) a thing, so you use the copula - Is polaiteoir í.
    She is clever. Clever is not a thing - it's a descriptive, not a noun, so you don't use the copula - Tá sí cliste.
    However, you could use the copula to say "she is a clever woman". Regardless of the adjective, the format is in essence She (a thing) is a woman (another thing), so you can use the copula here - Is bean (cliste) í.
    Similarly ...
    Is duine tanaí é - he is a thin person. Tá sé tanaí - he is thin.
    Is teach gránna é - it's an ugly house. Tá an teach gránna - the house is ugly.
    Is crann ard é - it's a tall tree. Tá an crann ard - the tree is tall.

    The grammatical format predates the advent of gender reassignment surgery, so you still use the copula - Is fear é (or alternatively, "ba fear é, ach is bean anois í - he was a man, but is now a woman.)

    Is duine fuar é / Is duine maith é - he is a cold person / he is a good person. Regardless of the facts, if this is the assertion you are making and you're saying that "one thing is another thing", then you use the copula.

    "To be, or not to be. That is the question."
    You almost got there! Bheith, nó gan bheith. S'é sin an cheist.

    In short, the appropriate use of the copula does not depend on pessimism or optimism. Persisting with it the way you have been clearly requires a strong dose of the latter.

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  • JN.Allezdax.com
    replied
    Is vs tá...

    I understand the difference between essence (Is) and circumstances (Bí), ok...

    Yesterday, I used the copula to say the pride I have of my children. Chipie, you used "Tá". Ah, the traditional irish pessimism... This means that you do not trust the fact people can be proud of their children pemanently, if I extrapolate, fot eternity. On the other side, after all, it is more logical, if we consider bad things can always occur, even a filial betrayal ("Tu quoque fili" told Julius Brutus before he died...).

    And that's where I want to come: Is the use of the copula or bí fixed in stone, or can it be subject of interpretation?

    Other exemples...
    Is fear é... Nowadays, can we be sure?... Surgery can change things...
    Is duine fear é... He is cold hearted... Now, in front of me, but maybe not essentially. A lawyer can be cold hearted during a hearing, but fundamentally compationate outside the court room.
    Is duine maith é...Can people be absolutely sure?...

    If I am pessimist or suspicious, I could use bí more than the copula. If I am enthusiastic, it should be the opposite. So, the choice of one form more than the other could be the expression of a frame of mind, on the moment, or on the length. RIght?

    So, at the end, "To bí or not to bí.."... Is an cheist seo... Or Tá an cheist seo? (Ok, I think you found the right form: (Ag) seo (anseo) an cheist... So, you don't have to choose... Irish people are not only pessimistic, or logical... They are clever too!
    Last edited by JN.Allezdax.com; 9-July-2020, 13:00.

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  • mr chips
    replied
    (Simple answer) Your instincts about the prefix "an-" are correct. This is the most common way to say "very" in Irish.
    (More complex answer) In fact, the prefix "an-" tends to be overused, so I generally prefer to use the prefix "fíor-" instead (very, truly, absolutely, certainly).
    e.g. -
    I wanted to get a bite of food in the MRSC after the game, but by the time I got there, there was very little left.
    Bhí me ag iarraidh gréim bídh a fháil san MRSC i ndiaidh an chluiche, ach faoin am a thuirling mé, bhí fíor-bheagán fágtha.

    The word mórálach means pride in a negative sense, i.e. boastful or vain. The word I normally use for your context is "bródúil" - I can't swear that this is a rigid interpretation though! You wouldn't use the copula in this instance, as you aren't saying that one "thing" is another "thing" (I am a businessman - Is fear ghnó . I am in the pub - tá mé sa teach tabhairne).

    So my way of saying "I am very proud of my children" would be "Tá mé fíor-bhródúil as mo pháistí. (NB note that the word "mo" requires a séimhiú for the word following it where possible; páistí > mo pháistí).

    Finally ...
    Ómós means reverance, homage or respect. "Tugann mo pháistí ómós mór dom" actually means "My children pay me great respect", or perhaps "My children pay homage to me". You could also say this as follows - "Tá ómós ag mo pháistí dom", i.e. my children have great respect for me. It's a term often used in an obituary or when paying respect to a person who has recently passed away. But you seem to be winning your battles with the language, so noli timere!

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  • JN.Allezdax.com
    replied
    Silly questions about a simple sentence... "I am very proud of my chidren"... Factually right, but probably not as simple as that and filled with grammatical traps...

    - "Very": I found prefix "an-". Is it used every time on every words? (Would be the easiest way for me, but, I fear the worse... )

    - French/german/english: The phrase is direct...Je suis fier de/ Ich bin stolz auf/ I am proud of... Naturally, in the irish logic, I am afraid that "I am" is wrong, but I arather feeling that it's the matter of pride falling to me... So, I would choose an indirect sentence like Proud come/fall on me from my children. So: "Is an-mórálach dom ar mo páisti"

    -But at the end, I suspect I have to forget my grammatical reflexes, and I have to change definitively my point of view, my children belong the subject of the phrase/the center of the question. And then comes que question about "to me"...: So, I could write "Tugann mo páisti ómós mór do mise"...

    Alors?

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  • JN.Allezdax.com
    replied
    "I meant that it is factually incorrect for you to say "I am not tenacious enough"! You've already surpassed in a matter of what, some eighteen months? Two years? a level of understanding that many Irish people have not reached after fourteen years of so-called education."

    Ca, c'est vraiment gentil. Go raibh maith agat, a chara.

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  • mr chips
    replied
    I meant that it is factually incorrect for you to say "I am not tenacious enough"! You've already surpassed in a matter of what, some eighteen months? Two years? a level of understanding that many Irish people have not reached after fourteen years of so-called education.

    A key difference in thinking between speakers of Irish and speakers of English is how the sense of self is expressed. As you say, in Irish things are usually at you, on you, around you etc - including feelings and emotions. In English and in many other European languages, we express these using phrases like "I am sad", "I am angry", "I am happy", "I am hungry" etc. These all indicate a change in your state of existence, making it as changeable as the weather.
    In Irish, "tá brón orm", "tá fearg orm", "tá áthas orm", "tá ocras orm" - all these things are temporary conditions which surround us, but the essence of the self remains unchanged, steadfast, permanent. Others are clay. We are granite.

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