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  • 99_oK?
    replied


    Well said mr chips....


    (béidir go mbéadh uasal brioscaí prátaí níos fearr, béidir nach mbéadh.....)


    An tUasal Tayto......(!!!!!!).....,


    Maith an fear. [img]smileys/wink.gif[/img]





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  • Mack the Knife
    replied
    Originally posted by Hopelessly Devoted

    Originally posted by mr chips
    I'll check a few links etc for you - PM me to remind me if I don't come back to you.Going back to the discussion - I wouldn't really equate support for the government with support for the Irish language.  In fact I think a lot of people don't see themselves in terms of being "for" or "against" it - I'd say that a significant proportion don't really care one way or another, or else have vague notions that it's "a good thing" without that really meaning anything, while a minority are hostile.  As far as that hostility goes, a huge portion of that is down to people's negative experiences of how it was (badly) taught at school.  I was certainly bored with my Irish classes and the much-maligned Peig (now that I think of it, the short stories in Fios Feasa for Inter Cert were a lot more interesting), but it never really made me think "I hate Irish" any more than I thought "I hate Commerce".  In fact I know I hated Commerce more ... I think there is still a cultural hangover from the days when Irish was perceived as the language of the backward, the peasant, the economically excluded.I certainly have substantial objections to the way that state policy towards the language has more often been counter-productive than not, whether in terms of education, degeneration of the Gaeltacht, unnecessary documentation, etc (notwithstanding that the latter holds true regardless of which language is used).  However I disagree with the argument that the advent of globalisation automatically makes Irish redundant - tell that to the people of Denmark, a European country with a high level of multilingualism and levels of economic activity, geographic and population size roughly comparable to our own.  They manage to trade internationally, just like us, whilst continuing to use a native language which is of little or no "value" or "relevance" in the global economy.  As a society, they speak English more than adequately for the purposes of commerce and tourism.  But there is no move to change the national language to English, or for that matter to German, the language of one of the world's powerhouse economies, in spite of it being right on their doorstep.I think it's not only possible but a very positive thing to take pride in your language.  God knows we need something to hold onto these days.  I don't mean that we should be jingoistic paddys, the ingrown toenail of western Europe.  Nor do I mean we should revive a cultural hostility to "the Brits", or nationalistic - these are all redundant, negative and undesirable traits regardless of whether we speak English or Irish.  More importantly, they are outdated and irrelevant in today's society.  But I'm proud of the uniqueness of the language.  It still survives in spite of all the attempts to eradicate it, in spite of all the butchered attempts at reviving it, and is actually growing after decades of decline.  It informs how I view and think about my life and surroundings, it gives me a unique and individual perspective in a world that is becoming increasingly monocultural, homogenised and beige, for me it now puts food on the table (the group I work for has created 6 full-time and 7 part-time jobs) and most importantly it puts a smile on my face. 

    Maith an fear Chips (pr&lt;SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"&gt;á&lt;FONT face=Verdana color=#4a4a4a>ta</font></font>&lt;SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"&gt;í)</font> !</font>&lt;/SPAN&gt;</font>&lt;/SPAN&gt;
    &lt;P =Msonormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"&gt;&lt;SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"&gt;</font>&lt;/SPAN&gt; 


    &lt;SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"&gt;</font>&lt;/SPAN&gt; 
    &lt;P =Msonormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"&gt;&lt;SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"&gt;</font>&lt;/SPAN&gt; 


     
    Prima Herr Pommes !

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  • Hopelessly Devoted
    replied


    Originally posted by mr chips
    I'll check a few links etc for you - PM me to remind me if I don't come back to you.

    Going back to the discussion - I wouldn't really equate support for the government with support for the Irish language. In fact I think a lot of people don't see themselves in terms of being "for" or "against" it - I'd say that a significant proportion don't really care one way or another, or else have vague notions that it's "a good thing" without that really meaning anything, while a minority are hostile. As far as that hostility goes, a huge portion of that is down to people's negative experiences of how it was (badly) taught at school. I was certainly bored with my Irish classes and the much-maligned Peig (now that I think of it, the short stories in Fios Feasa for Inter Cert were a lot more interesting), but it never really made me think "I hate Irish" any more than I thought "I hate Commerce". In fact I know I hated Commerce more ... I think there is still a cultural hangover from the days when Irish was perceived as the language of the backward, the peasant, the economically excluded.

    I certainly have substantial objections to the way that state policy towards the language has more often been counter-productive than not, whether in terms of education, degeneration of the Gaeltacht, unnecessary documentation, etc (notwithstanding that the latter holds true regardless of which language is used). However I disagree with the argument that the advent of globalisation automatically makes Irish redundant - tell that to the people of Denmark, a European country with a high level of multilingualism and levels of economic activity, geographic and population size roughly comparable to our own. They manage to trade internationally, just like us, whilst continuing to use a native language which is of little or no "value" or "relevance" in the global economy. As a society, they speak English more than adequately for the purposes of commerce and tourism. But there is no move to change the national language to English, or for that matter to German, the language of one of the world's powerhouse economies, in spite of it being right on their doorstep.

    I think it's not only possible but a very positive thing to take pride in your language. God knows we need something to hold onto these days. I don't mean that we should be jingoistic paddys, the ingrown toenail of western Europe. Nor do I mean we should revive a cultural hostility to "the Brits", or nationalistic - these are all redundant, negative and undesirable traits regardless of whether we speak English or Irish. More importantly, they are outdated and irrelevant in today's society.

    But I'm proud of the uniqueness of the language. It still survives in spite of all the attempts to eradicate it, in spite of all the butchered attempts at reviving it, and is actually growing after decades of decline. It informs how I view and think about my life and surroundings, it gives me a unique and individual perspective in a world that is becoming increasingly monocultural, homogenised and beige, for me it now puts food on the table (the group I work for has created 6 full-time and 7 part-time jobs) and most importantly it puts a smile on my face.

    Maith an fear Chips (prátaí) !







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  • Deedsie
    replied


    Thats a great post chips.


    Leave a comment:


  • mr chips
    replied


    I'll check a few links etc for you - PM me to remind me if I don't come back to you.

    Going back to the discussion - I wouldn't really equate support for the government with support for the Irish
    language. In fact I think a lot of people don't see themselves in
    terms of being "for" or "against" it - I'd say that a significant
    proportion don't really care one way or another, or else have vague
    notions that it's "a good thing" without that really meaning anything,
    while a minority are hostile. As far as that hostility goes, a huge
    portion of that is down to people's negative experiences of how it was (badly) taught at school. I was
    certainly bored with my Irish classes and the much-maligned Peig (now
    that I think of it, the short stories in Fios Feasa for Inter Cert were
    a lot more interesting), but it never really made me think "I hate
    Irish" any more than I thought "I hate Commerce". In fact I know I
    hated Commerce more ... I think there is still a cultural hangover from the days when Irish was perceived as the language of the backward, the peasant, the economically excluded.



    I certainly have substantial objections to the way that state policy towards the
    language has more often been counter-productive than not, whether in
    terms of education, degeneration of the Gaeltacht, unnecessary documentation, etc (notwithstanding that the latter holds true regardless of which language is used). However I disagree with the argument that the
    advent of globalisation automatically makes Irish redundant - tell that
    to the people of Denmark, a European country with a high level of
    multilingualism and levels of economic activity, geographic and
    population size roughly comparable to our own. They manage to trade
    internationally, just like us, whilst continuing to use a native
    language which is of little or no "value" or "relevance" in the global
    economy. As a society, they speak English more than adequately for the
    purposes of commerce and tourism. But there is no move to change the
    national language to English, or for that matter to German, the
    language of one of the world's powerhouse economies, in spite of it being right on their
    doorstep.

    I think it's not only possible but a very positive thing to take pride in your language. God knows we need something to hold onto these days. I don't mean that we should be jingoistic paddys, the ingrown toenail of western Europe. Nor do I mean we should revive a cultural hostility to "the Brits", or nationalistic - these are all redundant, negative and undesirable traits regardless of whether we speak English or Irish. More importantly, they are outdated and irrelevant in today's society.

    But I'm proud of the uniqueness of the language. It still survives in spite of all the attempts to eradicate it, in spite of all the butchered attempts at reviving it, and is actually growing after decades of decline. It informs how I view and think about my life and surroundings, it gives me a unique and individual perspective in a world that is becoming increasingly monocultural, homogenised and beige, for me it now puts food on the table (the group I work for has created 6 full-time and 7 part-time jobs) and most importantly it puts a smile on my face.

    Leave a comment:


  • Windeos
    replied

    Originally posted by mr chips
    Where are you based Windeos - did you say you're over in England now?
    Yeh, live in Newcastle Upon Tyne now so North of England

    Leave a comment:


  • Deedsie
    replied
    Originally posted by Mack the Knife
    Originally posted by Deedsie


    I speak German already. Surely i have the right to speak Irish if i see fit. Why it bothers people so much i dont know.



    The more languages we can speak from an early age the better off we will be at grasping French, German, Spanish, Chinese in second level.



    Its not just the government who support the Irish language, Its the electorate that vote for them. The people of Ireland.

    Actually less than 45% of the Electorate voted for the government parties. So saying that the people of Ireland support the Irish Language is a generalisation and an excaggeration in the extreme.

    Are you claiming that no supporters of Fine Gael, Labour &amp; Sinn Fein support Irish language initiatives?


    And obviously some government supporters oppose them also.


    Leave a comment:


  • Old Dog
    replied


    Originally posted by Mack the Knife


    "our" irish language loving government and the millions wasted on translating documents nobody reads. [img]smileys/lol.gif[/img]





    Thank you - not to mentionthe trees pulped/energy wasted on printing these "eilifant bán"documents that no-one will ever read.


    (The Green Weasels are so far up their holes about this environmental vandalism that my local TD literally ran away when I tried to raise this with him.)





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  • Mack the Knife
    replied
    Originally posted by Deedsie

    I speak German already. Surely i have the right to speak Irish if i see fit. Why it bothers people so much i dont know.


    The more languages we can speak from an early age the better off we will be at grasping French, German, Spanish, Chinese in second level.


    Its not just the government who support the Irish language, Its the electorate that vote for them. The people of Ireland.
    Actually less than 45% of the Electorate voted for the government parties. So saying that the people of Ireland support the Irish Language is a generalisation and an excaggeration in the extreme.

    Leave a comment:


  • mr chips
    replied
    Where are you based Windeos - did you say you're over in England now?

    Leave a comment:


  • Windeos
    replied
    From the outside looking in at the Irish language it seems very very complex. It's not like German where words are almost the same as their English equivalent (obviously not always).

    So is it a complicated language to learn?

    I learnt German and French but found them difficult enough due to the fact I wasn't interested in the slightest of learning another language, so I really didn't take anything in, completed the exams and blanked my memory.

    I'm thinking of taking a few classes to learn another language now that I can appreciate it. So just wanted some info on the Irish language really.

    Leave a comment:


  • Deedsie
    replied


    I speak German already. Surely i have the right to speak Irish if i see fit. Why it bothers people so much i dont know.


    The more languages we can speak from an early age the better off we will be at grasping French, German, Spanish, Chinese in second level.


    Its not just the government who support the Irish language, Its the electorate that vote for them. The people of Ireland.

    Leave a comment:


  • mr chips
    replied

    Why instead? Nothing to stop people learning more than one language. I speak French, German, Irish and English and have a smattering of tourist Spanish.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mack the Knife
    replied
    Learn german instead, it could prove useful. Afterall they may end up running the country after the mess made by "our" irish language loving government and the millions wasted on translating documents nobody reads. [img]smileys/lol.gif[/img]

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  • Deedsie
    replied
    Originally posted by Mack the Knife
    Originally posted by Deedsie


    www.teg.ie is thewebsite of the Teastas Eorpach na Gaeilge

    Perhaps if you gave up going to evening classes to learn bogoir you could afford the fare to Edinburgh.
    Take up something useful instead like Feng Shui.
    Paul O'Connell is a national treasure , Peig was just a conceited bitter old hag.

    You cant blame the Irish language for my financial problems. You can blame the blasted dentist.


    Evening classes are actually quite cheap. Easily accesible in UL.


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