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    New laws from January



    http://www.planet-rugby.com/Off_The_..._And_Referees/ Law_Discussions/story_55165.shtml
    <DIV =storyLayout>
    <H2>Lensbury and some law discussion
    </H2>


    Scrum change in the offing


    In the first week of November 2006 the IRB’s elite referees and their referee managers met at the Lensbury Club in South London to discuss the Laws of the Game.





    Obviously it is a serious discussion about the application of the laws - game mangement if you like. Here are some points arising from the meeting.


    1. Scrum engagement


    From 1 January 2007 the referees will manage the scrum slightly differently. This will be regarded as an Experimental Law Variation.


    The sequence of commands will be: Crouch Touch Pause Engage.


    This will be a slight change to the procedure in Law 20.1 (h). The front-rows crouch and pause, and then come together only when the referee calls ‘engage’. This call is not a command but an indication that the front rows may come together when ready.


    On Crouch the referee will want the front rows with legs bent and leaning forward at the same height.


    When they are at the same height, the referee will give the command Touch.


    Each prop will reach out with his free arm and place on his immediate opponent’s shoulder.


    This done the referee will give the command Pause.


    On this command, the props will remove the hand from the opponent’s shoulder.


    The referee will then give the command Engage.


    The purpose of this is to get the arm’s length apart of the front rows more precise and also to ensure that one side does not get undue advantage by coming down from a height and rushing straight into the hit.


    2. Maul


    a. The maul is not over if the defenders’ disengage from the maul.


    If the team not in possession of the ball in a maul withdraws all its players from the maul, it remains a maul, even if the ball is at the back of the ball-carrying group. Even if their opponents have ceased to be engaged in the maul, the ball carrying team may continue to play as in a maul.


    Because it is still a maul their opponents must observe the maul laws. For example they must observe the off-side lines and the manner of entry, and they may not collapse the maul.


    If the ball-carrying players detach from the maul with the ball in their possession, then the maul ceases to be a maul. Truck-and-trailer is possible only if the ball-carrying team detaches from the maul and commits obstruction.


    b. For play in a maul to continue the ball-carrying team must continue to move forward. Moving sideways or backwards is not forward.


    c. In the line-out


    If the opponents of the team catching the ball in the line-out do not make contact with the team in possession, no maul can be formed even if the team in possession groups together with the intention of forming a maul. As long as the line-out remains the team not in possession may not retreat from the line-out. If they do they are liable to a penalty.


    This will most likely spell the death – at least for the time being for it may rise again – of truck-‘n-trailer, which was such a fun description.


    3. Backchat


    If ever players are guilty of dissent by word or gesture, the referee is required to deal with their dissent and manage it.


    The IRB’s aide memoire on this states the following:


    [i]PLAYERS DISPUTING OF REFEREES DECISIONS
    Player questioning of refereeing decisions, at times boarding on abuse, will not be tolerated by the IRB. Refer
    The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad.
    - Salvador Dali (1904-1989)

    #2


    Do not like the new rule on the breakdown. It will be impossible for the ref to watch for players on the wrong side while also watching for offside across the pitch.


    Don't really like how powerful the maul is being made either.


    Did'nt realise these were coming into effect for the 6nations though![img]smileys/shock.gif[/img]
    The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad.
    - Salvador Dali (1904-1989)

    Comment


      #3
      I thought they were going to legalise collapsing of the maul, they appear to have done a complete U-Turn on it and strengthened the position of the mauling team
      Girlfriend\'s English Boss: That Gaelic Football you lot play is a bit mad isn\'t it?

      Girlfriend: That\'s nothing, you should watch a game of hurling. Think hockey except the ball is harder, it flies around the place and the sticks have bits of metal on the end of them.

      GEB: Woah, sounds dangerous.

      GF: Yeah, you can understand why some lads wear helmets, sure people have died.

      GEB: What, from being hit in the head?

      GF: No, they were shot by the English.

      Comment


        #4
        A more empowered maul? [img]smileys/thumb-up.gif[/img]

        Refs would want to be a lot more observant/quick to blow the whistle at
        the break-down if no gentle rucking is allowed anymore.
        Shameless self promotion time ladies and gents!
        Munster: Early Season
        Munster: Escape from Pool of Death
        Munster: HEC Champions 2007/2008
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        Comment


          #5


          Yes, they strengthened the maul in one way but note thefollowing:


          "If the opponents of the team catching the ball in the line-out do not make contact with the team in possession, no maul can be formed even if the team in possession groups together with the intention of forming a maul. As long as the line-out remains the team not in possession may not retreat from the line-out. If they do they are liable to a penalty."


          This is basically the end of the catch and drive. The opposing team will be able tosimply step backand the attacking teamwill not be able to form a maul. The ball carrier must either drive on himself or pass the ball out. The second bit is theirway of tying in thedefendingforwards until the ballis gone.


          Problems: very difficult to ref and itallows the defending team to commit fewer to the lineout and put more men in midfield.

          Comment


            #6
            Hardly - that's the situation currently and very few teams decide to
            stand off (most obvious example I can think of was England v Italy in
            last years 6N). Besides, all you need to counter that is for the Receiver
            to run into contact and get supported by his pack.
            Shameless self promotion time ladies and gents!
            Munster: Early Season
            Munster: Escape from Pool of Death
            Munster: HEC Champions 2007/2008
            Munster: Full Season Highlights.

            Comment


              #7
              I hear what you're saying Cathal but I'm not sure more teams won't start to do this now that attention is being brought to this law. Be interesting to see how it develops.

              Comment


                #8
                Refs allow mauls way too much time going sideways, I wonder if that rule saying they have to go forward is going to be enforced.

                Comment


                  #9


                  4. Feet on bodies


                  If feet are placed on bodies at the tackle/ruck in the act of trampling or stamping the referee must deal with the incident.


                  He is to consider first of all a red card and work down from that. Stamping on head or neck would certainly be material for a red card. If the action is to other parts of the body, a yellow card is to be considered.


                  If the person stood on was in an illegal position, the referee will, first show a penalty against him and then reverse the penalty for the stamping or trampling.


                  The aide memoire on this states: Stamping/Trampling


                  •More severe action needs to be taken re acts of stamping and trampling
                  •Red card is probably the correct sanction for deliberate stamping / trampling on joints.
                  Referees need to deal more firmly with retaliators while also dealing with the initial offender.



                  Don't know about this one. If someone is on the the wrong side, how can they be dealt with ?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Point


                    4. Feet on bodies


                    If feet are placed on bodies at the tackle/ruck in the act of trampling or stamping the referee must deal with the incident.


                    He is to consider first of all a red card and work down from that. Stamping on head or neck would certainly be material for a red card. If the action is to other parts of the body, a yellow card is to be considered.


                    If the person stood on was in an illegal position, the referee will, first show a penalty against him and then reverse the penalty for the stamping or trampling.


                    The aide memoire on this states: Stamping/Trampling


                    •More severe action needs to be taken re acts of stamping and trampling
                    •Red card is probably the correct sanction for deliberate stamping / trampling on joints.
                    Referees need to deal more firmly with retaliators while also dealing with the initial offender.



                    Don't know about this one. If someone is on the the wrong side, how can they be dealt with ?


                    Can it be argued that there is a distinction between rucking (backward motion of the foot ) and Stamping/trampling ( downward motion of the foot) ?

                    Comment


                      #11

                      Originally posted by Cabbage
                      I thought they were going to legalise collapsing of the maul, they appear to have done a complete U-Turn on it and strengthened the position of the mauling team
                      These are Jan 2007 law changes. The Stellenbosh Law Changes are to be considered Post World Cup.
                      Kiva - Loans That Change Lives

                      Comment


                        #12


                        "If the opponents of the team catching the ball in the line-out do not make contact with the team in possession, no maul can be formed even if the team in possession groups together with the intention of forming a maul. As long as the line-out remains the team not in possession may not retreat from the line-out. If they do they are liable to a penalty"


                        This is disgraceful and drastically reduces LO attacking options. The w***ers wanted to ban the maul, well they have started the process [img]smileys/mad.gif[/img][img]smileys/mad.gif[/img]what next all uncontested scrums? A sad day for rugby union.

                        Comment


                          #13


                          Originally posted by Cabbage
                          I thought they were going to legalise collapsing of the maul, they appear to have done a complete U-Turn on it and strengthened the position of the mauling team

                          If they get a chance to maul [img]smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif[/img]

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Munsterboy


                            Yes, they strengthened the maul in one way but note thefollowing:


                            "If the opponents of the team catching the ball in the line-out do not make contact with the team in possession, no maul can be formed even if the team in possession groups together with the intention of forming a maul. As long as the line-out remains the team not in possession may not retreat from the line-out. If they do they are liable to a penalty."


                            This is basically the end of the catch and drive. The opposing team will be able tosimply step backand the attacking teamwill not be able to form a maul. The ball carrier must either drive on himself or pass the ball out. The second bit is theirway of tying in thedefendingforwards until the ballis gone.


                            Problems: very difficult to ref and itallows the defending team to commit fewer to the lineout and put more men in midfield.


                            Exactly. Its a crazy rule and certainly the end of the "catch and drive"

                            Comment


                              #15


                              As long as the line-out remains the team not in possession may not retreat from the line-out. If they do they are liable to a penalty."


                              How is this going to happen? The time it takes to catch and drop to the ground is about a second, as soon as the catcher hits the ground he will go into contact and the maul will be formed. The defending team has a second to try and all step back simultaneously?? I don't think so. This ruling makes the the Italian tactic all the harder IMO.


                              Still it does offer up a tactic of catch and burst if the defenders do stand off, as they will be going backwards it will be easier for the attacking team to break the gainline I suppose...
                              The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad.
                              - Salvador Dali (1904-1989)

                              Comment

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