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6N) Wales V Ireland - Fri, 10 March, 20:05 - RTE & BBC - FRIDAY NIGHT LIGHTS

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    #31
    Originally posted by Daithi View Post
    Jeez I dunno, I don't like the silly sentiment of wishing an injury on any ref (however minor), but his point about Wayne Barnes having issues reffing Ireland is spot on imho. There has been far too many games involving Ireland badly refereed by Wayne Barnes, with multiple inexplicable decisions, blatantly inconsistent interpretations and inexcusable errors (e.g. allowing Wales a,quick throw in of a touched ball leading to an obviously illegal try a few years back in Cardiff for instance) to ignore imho.
    Barnes wasnt involved in many of those games. Quick throw in incident didnt have Barnes in game at all.
    What inconsistent interpretations as Barnes is very much a stickler and i dont see the inconsistency???

    Iirc someone on here did a statistical analysis of Wayne's refereeing of Ireland over the years, and afaik he consistently awards more penalties against Ireland than the opposition, even when most other refs don't, and also far more penalties per game against Ireland than any other ref around. He's a stand out statistical outlier when refereeing Ireland. That's fishy in the extreme imho.
    (& best avoided if possible I.e. by bringing his record of bias v Ireland to the attention of the relevant authorities in world rugby for instance)
    There is no bias against Ireland. And unless you show this analysis ???

    Originally posted by Spiffy View Post
    Barnes is Ok, but like many other refs these days, he seems to be trying too hard to get matey with the players. I favour an old fashioned type ref who keeps himself at arms length and just does his job without too much comment, or calling players by their christian names, or complimenting them on good play etc....
    I dont see any issue with calling player by names and complimenting them on positive play is a good thing and can help build rapport....

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      #32
      Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
      . Quick throw in incident didnt have Barnes in game at all.

      What inconsistent interpretations as Barnes is very much a stickler and i dont see the inconsistency???

      There is no bias against Ireland. And unless you show this analysis ???

      I dont see any issue with calling player by names and complimenting them on positive play is a good thing and can help build rapport....
      1. Quick throw in incident: apologies, my bad, I thought it had been WB reffing that day in 2011, I was wrong.

      2. Inconsistency with Ireland: you say you don't see any inconsistency, but I say I do. The statistics of number of penalties per game against Ireland by Barnes, as well as penalties against Ireland relative to any opposition they play with WB reffing, as well as the percentage of games lost when being reffed by Barnes (higher% than any other ref) is highly ndicative of bias (conscious, or unconscious ) by Barnes imho.

      3. Analysis of apparent bias : As I say someone did the analysis of WB refereeing of Ireland on here circa 4 to 5 years ago iirc. Go look it up if you'd like further info. Also check out the links at the bottom of this post.

      4. Pandering to players : I don't mind refs complimenting players on their play as it pertains to adhering to the laws of the game at all. But this trend of complimenting individual players or individual teams on general play is complete tosh imho. As Poite put it at the weekend to England
      'I'm your referee, not your coach...'

      There are boundaries & roles when refereeing a game,, and I much prefer when refs stick to them tbh. Oherwise they leave themselves open to feelings of bias based on how 'pally' & supportive they are of one teams players over another, or whatever, which is a complete blurring of lines imho. The only exception to this is when trying to encourage players to stay within the laws of the game, proactively encouraging them to keep their hands off the ball, or to keep their hits lower, or to watch offside at rucks, etc etc, etc.

      As in nearly all things refereeing, when looking for excellence, look what Nigel does and it's probably best. Again Owens gets the right balance between authority and positive encouragement of both teams to play positive, law abiding rugby imho. He's top class.

      P.s. some more informed opinion on Wayne Barne's refereeing of Ireland in the links below. Thre first link shows Ireland lose a higher percentage of games under Barnes than any other ref in the game.
      Bernard Jackman specifically addresses the over familiarity issue relating to Barnes (& Wales), & they also refer to an antipathy between some Irish players and Wayne Barnes in the fourth link also.

      https://www.balls.ie/rugby/find-refe...ince-07-116496

      http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugb...alls-1.2145742

      http://www.independent.ie/videos/spo...-31079931.html

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdSk...e_gdata_player
      Last edited by Daithi; 28th-February-2017, 15:00.
      ____________________________________________
      Munster were great when they were Munster.

      alas they are just north munster now.......
      ____________________________________________

      Comment


        #33
        Wayne Barnes is still the man that robbed Montauban of a win in Thomond Park in 08' and sent off Hartley in the AP final
        He's a guy who gets up at six o'clock in the morning regardless of what time it is.

        Comment


          #34
          Wayne Barnes was suspended as an international ref after the game in which Davies wasn't red carded and then Ferris was, wrongly, penalised for their respective dangerous tackles.


          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
            Barnes wasnt involved in many of those games. Quick throw in incident didnt have Barnes in game at all.
            What inconsistent interpretations as Barnes is very much a stickler and i dont see the inconsistency???

            There is no bias against Ireland. And unless you show this analysis ???

            I dont see any issue with calling player by names and complimenting them on positive play is a good thing and can help build rapport....
            Disagree. The ref should stand above that. It would not build rapport if he were continually complimenting one side and not the other. He should refer to the players by the numbers on their back and make no comment at all on the play/skill levels etc... The ref should do all in his power to appear totally neutral. Like a good waiter, he should be almost invisible.
            Erse end of nowhere

            Comment


              #36
              I was not a fan of Barnes but I think he has improved considerably and he should be commended for speaking to the French in the language that 2/3 of the side speak!?!? I do think
              we are blessed with the general quality of international rugby referees.


              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by redherring View Post
                Wayne Barnes is still the man that robbed Montauban of a win in Thomond Park in 08' and sent off Hartley in the AP final
                True but he repaid us in kind though against Clermont in Thomond in Dec 2014, he was shocking that night.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Ive got loads of replies so ill just write on reply for all of you, essentially the only chance we have of winning next Friday is if we play at 100% and Wales play at 80%, if not we have lost already. You can defend him all you want but your kindness towards him will end on Friday when the Englishman educated in Wales wins the game for Wales meaning that his own country can clinch the 6N the following day with a Scotland win...very good planning by the 6N committee bravo!!!

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Maybe wishing a pulled hamstring was a bit OTT, I just wish something happens to him that leads to him not being able to ref the game on Friday, maybe a small flu, maybe a family celebration something like that, maybe tightness in the calf or something. Just something that leads to him missing that evening, he can be fine on either side of the match.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by Cathalsmart View Post
                      Maybe wishing a pulled hamstring was a bit OTT, I just wish something happens to him that leads to him not being able to ref the game on Friday, maybe a small flu, maybe a family celebration something like that, maybe tightness in the calf or something. Just something that leads to him missing that evening, he can be fine on either side of the match.
                      it's completely OTT and childish. And you simply have to adjust to the referee on the day. All have their own quirks.


                      Originally posted by Cathalsmart View Post
                      Ive got loads of replies so ill just write on reply for all of you, essentially the only chance we have of winning next Friday is if we play at 100% and Wales play at 80%, if not we have lost already. You can defend him all you want but your kindness towards him will end on Friday when the Englishman educated in Wales wins the game for Wales meaning that his own country can clinch the 6N the following day with a Scotland win...very good planning by the 6N committee bravo!!!
                      this is nonsense and paranoia to the extreme...
                      Originally posted by Spiffy View Post
                      Disagree. The ref should stand above that. It would not build rapport if he were continually complimenting one side and not the other. He should refer to the players by the numbers on their back and make no comment at all on the play/skill levels etc... The ref should do all in his power to appear totally neutral. Like a good waiter, he should be almost invisible.
                      Who said anything about complimenting one side continuously over the other but throwing in the odd bit of praise for good play helps build relationship with players and while yes a good ref should ideally be almost invisible making comments like these we are talking about can help game management to some extent.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Daithi View Post
                        2. Inconsistency with Ireland: you say you don't see any inconsistency, but I say I do. The statistics of number of penalties per game against Ireland by Barnes, as well as penalties against Ireland relative to any opposition they play with WB reffing, as well as the percentage of games lost when being reffed by Barnes (higher% than any other ref) is highly ndicative of bias (conscious, or unconscious ) by Barnes imho.
                        If Ireland concede more penalties with Barnes then that isnt bias it's simply Ireland not playing well in relation to Barnes interpretation of the law book. That isn't any bias.

                        3. Analysis of apparent bias : As I say someone did the analysis of WB refereeing of Ireland on here circa 4 to 5 years ago iirc. Go look it up if you'd like further info. Also check out the links at the bottom of this post.
                        You are the one alleging that Barnes is biased why should I have to bring up this proof?

                        4. Pandering to players : I don't mind refs complimenting players on their play as it pertains to adhering to the laws of the game at all. But this trend of complimenting individual players or individual teams on general play is complete tosh imho. As Poite put it at the weekend to England
                        'I'm your referee, not your coach...'
                        Complementing players on good play isn't pandering to them. It's building a rapport which is a key part of basic referee game management. I referee and have never once been criticised, when being assessed, for making comments like that

                        There are boundaries & roles when refereeing a game,, and I much prefer when refs stick to them tbh. Oherwise they leave themselves open to feelings of bias based on how 'pally' & supportive they are of one teams players over another, or whatever, which is a complete blurring of lines imho. The only exception to this is when trying to encourage players to stay within the laws of the game, proactively encouraging them to keep their hands off the ball, or to keep their hits lower, or to watch offside at rucks, etc etc, etc.
                        Have you ever refereed and can you please list all these boundaries that I and all referees must meet in each game? Creating a good positive atmosphere in a game allows for a better game and makes referee look more approachable and understanding which helps the running of a game.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
                          it's completely OTT and childish. And you simply have to adjust to the referee on the day. All have their own quirks.


                          this is nonsense and paranoia to the extreme...
                          Who said anything about complimenting one side continuously over the other but throwing in the odd bit of praise for good play helps build relationship with players and while yes a good ref should ideally be almost invisible making comments like these we are talking about can help game management to some extent.

                          We will see if its paranoia when Ireland lose on Saturday despite dominating while Wayne Barnes is a gentleman when talking to the Welsh players and then in an instant talk to the Irish players as if one of them shagged his wife...

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
                            it's completely OTT and childish. And you simply have to adjust to the referee on the day. All have their own quirks.


                            this is nonsense and paranoia to the extreme...
                            Who said anything about complimenting one side continuously over the other but throwing in the odd bit of praise for good play helps build relationship with players and while yes a good ref should ideally be almost invisible making comments like these we are talking about can help game management to some extent.
                            Let's say one team is playing brilliantly and the other total crap. In such a case it would be difficult for his compliments/praise to be anything other than one way. Traditionally, refs do not offer praise to either team. Why would they? That is not why they are there. It is not a popularity contest, though some gobby refs seem to think it is. The best way to get the players respect is just good, consistent and fair reffing.
                            Erse end of nowhere

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by Cathalsmart View Post
                              Wayne Barnes is in an instant talk to the Irish players as if one of them shagged his wife...
                              Maybe he likes that...

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by Spiffy View Post
                                Let's say one team is playing brilliantly and the other total crap. In such a case it would be difficult for his compliments/praise to be anything other than one way. Traditionally, refs do not offer praise to either team. Why would they? That is not why they are there. It is not a popularity contest, though some gobby refs seem to think it is. The best way to get the players respect is just good, consistent and fair reffing.
                                you don't say things all the time but occasionally. Talking about positive play is a good thing. Positive play means a referees role is decreased which is better for a game.

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