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6N) Wales V Ireland - Fri, 10 March, 20:05 - RTE & BBC - FRIDAY NIGHT LIGHTS

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  • Munsterboy
    replied
    The other thing Joe has in his favour that Eddie and Deccie did not: he's a Kiwi.

    We are quick to turn on our own. We treat Kiwis as some kind of rugby deities and consider ourselves fortunate to be graced by their presence.

    Leave a comment:


  • MunsterTel
    replied
    Originally posted by whimpersnap View Post
    Lots of people pay attention to Hook. He never had any credibility but he has influence. Same as Dunphy in soccer.

    A. You'll see it if/when England beat us.

    B. Great player.
    If he had meaningful influence things woulda started to change after the world cup. We are going backwards. As i posted elsewhere,
    winning ratio's per 10 games,

    80%
    80%
    55%
    60%

    50%.

    Leave a comment:


  • MunsterTel
    replied
    Originally posted by lawrence View Post
    Or the other great phrases "Attention to Detail" and "systems".


    If he was so ****ing attentive to details he might see that his system isn't working.
    Execute.

    That game plan has Joe written all over it.

    What else do you expect from a joe Schmidt team.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lad
    replied
    Originally posted by whimpersnap View Post
    He also runs directly for the nearest opponent and gets turned over like a Kearney.
    If you see above, McCloskey was brought up because he does exactly what Joe has Henshaw doing which is running directly at the nearest opponent.

    Leave a comment:


  • lawrence
    replied
    Originally posted by MunsterTel View Post
    Thats just not true. You may be able to cite a critic or two of Joes but largely everyone and anyone in the media refused to criticise him. The amount of people in the media fawning over him has been embarrassing. Perhaps it was done as a joke, but the posters name on here, In Joe we trust, sums up the medias feelings towards him. I had never heard the word pragmatic so many times in my whole life than i have in the last 4 years.

    Or the other great phrases "Attention to Detail" and "systems".


    If he was so ****ing attentive to details he might see that his system isn't working.

    Leave a comment:


  • whimpersnap
    replied
    Originally posted by MunsterTel View Post
    Nobody pays attention to Hooks mad ramblings. He's lost his credibilty.

    A. I see no evidence of the union turning on Joe.

    B. Fergus Macfadden.
    Lots of people pay attention to Hook. He never had any credibility but he has influence. Same as Dunphy in soccer.

    A. You'll see it if/when England beat us.

    B. Great player.

    Leave a comment:


  • MunsterTel
    replied
    Originally posted by whimpersnap View Post
    There were Munster fans here who said things like "in Joe we trust." Hook has been on his case since the beginning, for one. (He may be not be a great example, to be fair, since all of his articles come directly from this forum). It was less pronounced when we won the two 6Ns. Even before and during the World Cup it was there.

    There's two things though: a) the rugby media in Ireland is, and always has been, subsurvient to the IRFU. The IRFU is an autocratic organisation that will clamp down on any criticism, and has previously blacklisted reporters who didn't tow the line, so dissent is always cloaked in praise, bar outliers like Hook who don't have to bow to anyone. It was the same for EOS and Kidney, and journalists only began criticising them when the union began to turn on them, and we're seeing the same thing now as the union is turning against Schmidt.

    b) this place is on a constant war footing and, like Liverpool fans, Munsterfans (the forum, not the general public) always think there's a conspiracy against them and their enemies (blue magoos) are being given preferential treatment.

    A-goodnight!!
    Nobody pays attention to Hooks mad ramblings. He's lost his credibilty.

    A. I see no evidence of the union turning on Joe.

    B. Fergus Macfadden.

    Leave a comment:


  • whimpersnap
    replied
    There were Munster fans here who said things like "in Joe we trust." Hook has been on his case since the beginning, for one. (He may be not be a great example, to be fair, since all of his articles come directly from this forum). It was less pronounced when we won the two 6Ns. Even before and during the World Cup it was there.

    There's two things though: a) the rugby media in Ireland is, and always has been, subsurvient to the IRFU. The IRFU is an autocratic organisation that will clamp down on any criticism, and has previously blacklisted reporters who didn't tow the line, so dissent is always cloaked in praise, bar outliers like Hook who don't have to bow to anyone. It was the same for EOS and Kidney, and journalists only began criticising them when the union began to turn on them, and we're seeing the same thing now as the union is turning against Schmidt.

    b) this place is on a constant war footing and, like Liverpool fans, Munsterfans (the forum, not the general public) always think there's a conspiracy against them and their enemies (blue magoos) are being given preferential treatment.

    A-goodnight!!

    Leave a comment:


  • MunsterTel
    replied
    Originally posted by whimpersnap View Post
    He was never above criticism. Outside the cocoon of this place there have always been plenty of people criticising him in the media and the general public.
    Thats just not true. You may be able to cite a critic or two of Joes but largely everyone and anyone in the media refused to criticise him. The amount of people in the media fawning over him has been embarrassing. Perhaps it was done as a joke, but the posters name on here, In Joe we trust, sums up the medias feelings towards him. I had never heard the word pragmatic so many times in my whole life than i have in the last 4 years.

    Leave a comment:


  • whimpersnap
    replied
    He was never above criticism. Outside the cocoon of this place there have always been plenty of people criticising him in the media and the general public.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kevin77
    replied
    Originally posted by LongtimeLurker View Post
    Think the impact of luck has been overlooked. Joe has had his fair share of luck in his first couple of seasons in charge. That kind of thing tends to even out in time. Its not gone his way this season. Personally also think Plumtrees departure / loss has proven significant, Easterby just not as experienced in coaching terms. A good example of this is asking Toner to act as first receiver, its madness, don’t get where that comes from but it’s a coaching decision, as Toner would not be putting himself up as a source of primary go forward ball, he has excellent hands and is not a bad link player for a second row but he is just not a man built to make the primary drive. It’s just not his forte, why ask him to do it? A malfunctioning lineout is a group skill. Best and Toner are copping all the blame and should be taken out and shot, there are at least 3 guys involved in each throw in and the timing is crucial. Looking at it again unfortunately as I love his heart and will never forget that clear out while carrying a broken arm against NZ a few years ago, Best looks to have undercooked the crucial throws. It’s all very well to be ballsy and go for the try but in a tight game you build a score. For all the abuse Wayne Barnes got on this thread he gave Ireland more than enough penalty opportunities to win this game. As a collective the Irish team failed to take their opportunities.
    As a Leinster fan been dipping in and out for years but never posted yet. I find the provincial bias on here interesting +/ disappointing - no less than on babblingbrook in fairness. I think it needs to be said they are not Munster or Leinster players when playing for Ireland. They are Irish players. None of them go out intending to have a bad game and some of the comments here have gone over the top. A few people on here seem to have changed their tune massively since the game in Chicago.
    JS not above criticism but anyone talking about a change of coach needs to calm down and start taking the tablets again.
    Thanks for the relatively balanced post. I'm with you that it's not time to change the coach HOWEVER, I think it's finally time to at least discuss where we're at, including the coach. As has been mentioned, the World Cup was disappointing. In mitigation I believe the injuries put paid to that. Likewise last years Six Nations.

    However, this years Six Nations has been an unqualified disaster. I believe we were far closer to beating Wales than the scoreline suggested and also losing to Scotland was disappointing however if we'd started better we'd have beaten them. Regardless, with the players we have, we simply should not be losing to both a stodgy, poor Wales and an improving but still not great Scotland in such a short space of time. We've not been injury plagued. We've generally had most of our best players available. We should not be in a position where we have lost 2 from 4 with the best team still to play and the threat of a very poor finish. Two years in a row.

    Without trying to bring provincial bias into it, the last two coaches came under immense pressure after underperforming at a world cup and then subsequent substandard Six Nations. In fact, they were pilloried and lost their jobs.

    The things that have defined Schmidt as above criticism are now fast fading into the rear view mirror and it's time his methods are seriously questioned by the mainstream media.

    Leave a comment:


  • whimpersnap
    replied
    Originally posted by LongtimeLurker View Post
    A good example of this is asking Toner to act as first receiver, its madness, don’t get where that comes from but it’s a coaching decision
    I'd say it comes from the same place as all those times POC went in as first receiver and you knew it meant we were getting desperate because nothing else was working. No coach ever asked POC to be first receiver and nobody ever asked Toner to do it either, but when your primary carriers are trying to vary it up by picking up different positions you end up with guys less suited to the task doing the job.

    Leave a comment:


  • whimpersnap
    replied
    Originally posted by Jackie Brown View Post
    McCloskey's biggest problem is that for a large fella he tackles like a Kearney

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
    He also runs directly for the nearest opponent and gets turned over like a Kearney.

    Leave a comment:


  • Munsterboy
    replied
    Originally posted by LongtimeLurker View Post
    Think the impact of luck has been overlooked. Joe has had his fair share of luck in his first couple of seasons in charge. That kind of thing tends to even out in time. Its not gone his way this season. Personally also think Plumtrees departure / loss has proven significant, Easterby just not as experienced in coaching terms. A good example of this is asking Toner to act as first receiver, its madness, don’t get where that comes from but it’s a coaching decision, as Toner would not be putting himself up as a source of primary go forward ball, he has excellent hands and is not a bad link player for a second row but he is just not a man built to make the primary drive. It’s just not his forte, why ask him to do it? A malfunctioning lineout is a group skill. Best and Toner are copping all the blame and should be taken out and shot, there are at least 3 guys involved in each throw in and the timing is crucial. Looking at it again unfortunately as I love his heart and will never forget that clear out while carrying a broken arm against NZ a few years ago, Best looks to have undercooked the crucial throws. It’s all very well to be ballsy and go for the try but in a tight game you build a score. For all the abuse Wayne Barnes got on this thread he gave Ireland more than enough penalty opportunities to win this game. As a collective the Irish team failed to take their opportunities.
    As a Leinster fan been dipping in and out for years but never posted yet. I find the provincial bias on here interesting +/ disappointing - no less than on babblingbrook in fairness. I think it needs to be said they are not Munster or Leinster players when playing for Ireland. They are Irish players. None of them go out intending to have a bad game and some of the comments here have gone over the top. A few people on here seem to have changed their tune massively since the game in Chicago.
    JS not above criticism but anyone talking about a change of coach needs to calm down and start taking the tablets again.
    To be honest I think the biggest show of bias is from those who refuse to acknowledge that Joe has now had a ****e RWC followed by two ****e 6Ns by picking conservative teams playing a very limited game plan, and those who refuse to acknowledge that Rob Kearney has been abysmal for a few seasons now.

    They are almost exclusively Leinster supporters who can't forget what both men delivered for Leinster in the past.

    Leave a comment:


  • Brenny
    replied
    Originally posted by LongtimeLurker View Post
    Think the impact of luck has been overlooked. Joe has had his fair share of luck in his first couple of seasons in charge. That kind of thing tends to even out in time. Its not gone his way this season. Personally also think Plumtrees departure / loss has proven significant, Easterby just not as experienced in coaching terms. A good example of this is asking Toner to act as first receiver, its madness, don’t get where that comes from but it’s a coaching decision, as Toner would not be putting himself up as a source of primary go forward ball, he has excellent hands and is not a bad link player for a second row but he is just not a man built to make the primary drive. It’s just not his forte, why ask him to do it? A malfunctioning lineout is a group skill. Best and Toner are copping all the blame and should be taken out and shot, there are at least 3 guys involved in each throw in and the timing is crucial. Looking at it again unfortunately as I love his heart and will never forget that clear out while carrying a broken arm against NZ a few years ago, Best looks to have undercooked the crucial throws. It’s all very well to be ballsy and go for the try but in a tight game you build a score. For all the abuse Wayne Barnes got on this thread he gave Ireland more than enough penalty opportunities to win this game. As a collective the Irish team failed to take their opportunities.
    As a Leinster fan been dipping in and out for years but never posted yet. I find the provincial bias on here interesting +/ disappointing - no less than on babblingbrook in fairness. I think it needs to be said they are not Munster or Leinster players when playing for Ireland. They are Irish players. None of them go out intending to have a bad game and some of the comments here have gone over the top. A few people on here seem to have changed their tune massively since the game in Chicago.
    JS not above criticism but anyone talking about a change of coach needs to calm down and start taking the tablets again.
    I think we need to ignore the provincial bias of the supporters here and on babblingbrook and concentrate on the provincial bias of the coach. I'm a Munster fan but I'll freely admit that Kidney was biased in favour of Munster players. Leo Cullen was playing as well as DOC for a while but DOC was picked ahead of him every time, similarly Shane Horgan had a fantastic run of form late in his career that went unrewarded and Mike Ross was ignored for far too long in favour of Hayes, who cleared wanted to retire and call it a day, and Court, enough said. The same thing is happening now, Schmidt is sticking to a static pecking order and ignoring form. We've said enough here about the Kearney brothers but Bowe, love the guy, showed no form to warrant his place and if rumours are to be believed McFadden has been called up to replace him!

    We need to find out why very good provincial coaches who are promoted to international level inevitably struggle to fully utilise the players available to them. Is there some structural problem here?

    Leave a comment:

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