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6N G2)//KO14:25// Italy V Ireland. Saturday 11th February. Stadio Olimpico, Rome

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    Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post

    It would be interesting to understand how Argentina have made the journey they have and see if there's anything that Italy can learn there. Or even Japan.

    Right now, Italy would struggle to hold their own in the ERC.
    O'Shea has barley been there a wet week, and has started a compete overhaul of their system. Apparently there is no sport in Italian schools and it's having an impact on all their sports. He managed to snag Stephen Aboud out of the Irish system, who was long term head of technical direction within our system and the guy who started the Irish academy and has built most of our pathways back to the 90's. He's now running the centres italian rugby have setup for 16 and 18 year olds. It clearly it will be half a decade to see that progress.

    They were ok against Wales, before fading badly. Ireland was always going to be tough for them, 6day turnaround for the weakest squad in the Six nations. They only now have what, 4 or 5 players who don't play with Treviso or Zebre, and when any of them are missing, they are under the pump. I heard O'Shea in the buildup to this week talk about how they are phasing out the older players already, and how some of their 20's are very good players earmarked to be developed for the next RWC. That shows the gulf already they need to bridge as pretty sure none of this years Irish 20's are on the rwc2019 radar.

    On an immediate level, the quality of their foreign signings in the clubs has been woeful recently. COS/Catt and Venter especially should have the contacts to improve that. When you see the amount of project players being capped elsewhere in the 6N, by countries with far better resources, it's another area they have been left behind in.

    I also think they need to rethink Rome, it's a great massive ground, but totally dilutes any "home advantage" hostile atmosphere they used to create in the old ground. I don't think its coincidence their win over South Africa was in a another ground.

    Lets hope they they manage to put it up to someone in their last 3 games but they have finally put proper change into their system. Sadly it will be a few years before we can see if it's enough.
    Seas suas agus troid!

    Comment


      Originally posted by LLCOOLJ14 View Post
      O'Shea has barley been there a wet week, and has started a compete overhaul of their system. Apparently there is no sport in Italian schools and it's having an impact on all their sports. He managed to snag Stephen Aboud out of the Irish system, who was long term head of technical direction within our system and the guy who started the Irish academy and has built most of our pathways back to the 90's. He's now running the centres italian rugby have setup for 16 and 18 year olds. It clearly it will be half a decade to see that progress.

      They were ok against Wales, before fading badly. Ireland was always going to be tough for them, 6day turnaround for the weakest squad in the Six nations. They only now have what, 4 or 5 players who don't play with Treviso or Zebre, and when any of them are missing, they are under the pump. I heard O'Shea in the buildup to this week talk about how they are phasing out the older players already, and how some of their 20's are very good players earmarked to be developed for the next RWC. That shows the gulf already they need to bridge as pretty sure none of this years Irish 20's are on the rwc2019 radar.

      On an immediate level, the quality of their foreign signings in the clubs has been woeful recently. COS/Catt and Venter especially should have the contacts to improve that. When you see the amount of project players being capped elsewhere in the 6N, by countries with far better resources, it's another area they have been left behind in.

      I also think they need to rethink Rome, it's a great massive ground, but totally dilutes any "home advantage" hostile atmosphere they used to create in the old ground. I don't think its coincidence their win over South Africa was in a another ground.

      Lets hope they they manage to put it up to someone in their last 3 games but they have finally put proper change into their system. Sadly it will be a few years before we can see if it's enough.


      Amazing to think that those pathways don't exist after this long. They're losing or have lost a generation of players in Bortelami, Bergamasco x 2, Lo Cicero, Masi, Canale etc and it seems to be a big gap to the next generation.

      Whatever they did, or didn't do, it's like production stopped around the time they brought their pro franchises on line.
      "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

      "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


      "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

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        Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
        [ATTACH=CONFIG]15194[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]15195[/ATTACH]
        The size of the legs on Keatley.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
          Amazing to think that those pathways don't exist after this long. They're losing or have lost a generation of players in Bortelami, Bergamasco x 2, Lo Cicero, Masi, Canale etc and it seems to be a big gap to the next generation.

          Whatever they did, or didn't do, it's like production stopped around the time they brought their pro franchises on line.
          There is horror stories about how amateur it is, partially because the union, pro game and old clubs all fight each other constantly. No harmonisation like we enjoy for sure. Getting O'Shea in (and the others) is seen as their Lens type moment. Apparently, COS has said the gps training stats of the international players is well below the Quins set-up and a basic area they are focusing on. I've also heard he feels Zebre can be made competitive far more quickly after a full review of both. Apparently neither club had basic performance plans in place for players that amateur clubs would find common.

          Be be great for the long term future of the pro12 and 6N if they can become competitive. It's a lucrative market, with far more €€€ potential than any of the other nations people say could replace them in the 6N, and that's a massive reason perhaps why those conversations won't ever happen.
          Seas suas agus troid!

          Comment


            Just on stats for Gilroys defensive issues. There was 5 missed tackles for backs. Jackson missed 1. Murray and Ringrose missed 2.
            On Kearney. Cummiskey gotbit wrong Kearney made 50m for 15 carries. Whats more scarier is Earls made 45m from 13 carries but Zebo and Gilroy mage 76m and 88m respectively. Isn't that a poor carry rate though from FB that the other back 3 guys are getting more yards when traditionally 15 makes way more due to kick returns etc. Also Kearney didn't have to make 1 tackle yesterday.

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              Originally posted by LLCOOLJ14 View Post
              There is horror stories about how amateur it is, partially because the union, pro game and old clubs all fight each other constantly. No harmonisation like we enjoy for sure. Getting O'Shea in (and the others) is seen as their Lens type moment. Apparently, COS has said the gps training stats of the international players is well below the Quins set-up and a basic area they are focusing on. I've also heard he feels Zebre can be made competitive far more quickly after a full review of both. Apparently neither club had basic performance plans in place for players that amateur clubs would find common.

              Be be great for the long term future of the pro12 and 6N if they can become competitive. It's a lucrative market, with far more €€€ potential than any of the other nations people say could replace them in the 6N, and that's a massive reason perhaps why those conversations won't ever happen.

              It's hard to credit that standards can be so different, especially when you had players from those sides going into international camps with guys who were playing at top flight French and English clubs.

              You're right about the alternatives too. Does anyone seriously want to be schlepping to Georgia? I think it's generally more sensible to plan on markets that haven't been physically invaded by Russia in recent memory.
              "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

              "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


              "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

              Comment


                Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
                “I thought it was a mixed bag for Craig,” said Schmidt. “There was a couple of defensive things, positionally, that I think he’ll learn from.
                “He was the recipient of one of the most outstanding tactical kicks I’ve seen in a long time from CJ Stander. CJ swears that it was meant to come off the side of his foot like that so he could get the relevant spin to get it into Craig’s hands.
                “[Craig] doesn’t need too many invitations when the ball bounces. He is quick, his ability to change direction is very, very good and he took a nice high ball at one stage. He ticked most of his boxes really well.
                “The reason we chose him is because we were going to maybe give a few different guys chances over these first two weeks, we committed to that.
                “We probably made less changes than we originally thought, partly because of injuries to guys like Peter O’Mahony, Johnny Sexton and Andrew Trimble, who we thought would be available by now.
                “The great thing is that they will definitely be available for our next game and hopefully there will be a few headaches now in terms of selection.”
                Schmidt's little hard on Gilroy who took his chances well. On the other hand, I did not want to see him in the match day 23 at all. He has not been playing much for Ulster and his form has been mediocre. Don't understand why Joe had him on the bench ahead of TOH, who can cover both FB and wing, is just as fast, and a better all-round footballer.
                Erse end of nowhere

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                  Sometimes statements made in press are really messages. Perhaps gilroy is kind of fella who needs a root up the hole occasionally.

                  By all accounts Tiernan was excellent today btw

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                    Originally posted by Oldschoolsocks View Post
                    So who has a twitter box? I've seen mention of tweets attributing commtfrom Schmidt or something along those lines. Where/how can I see the actual tweets?


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                    Is it a twitter machine you mean?
                    Gwan Joe!!

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                      Originally posted by ustix View Post
                      Is it a twitter machine you mean?
                      Potatoes potatoes


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                      Only fools and drunks argue over everything. If you don’t have a hangover the next day you’re not the drunk...

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                        Originally posted by Oldschoolsocks View Post
                        Potatoes potatoes


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                        Bóthar Aviva?
                        Gwan Joe!!

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                          A mixture of random thoughts from the weekend;

                          - Paddy Jackson. I know it was only Italy but my overall thinking is that he's just getting better and better. And he's now been part of a fair few big games for Ireland. At the moment Sexton is still number one but the Jackson has improved his placing kicking out of sight and the only real criticism is his lack of experience at this level. He's now getting it, so at the very worst is a great back up to Sexton and at best is now becoming a real alternative. The Lions will take Farrell and Sexton but I think Jackson is leading the battle to be the third pick against Ford, Russell and Biggar.

                          - Baille v Furlong. I absolutely cannot wait for the French and Irish scrum to lock horns. Both Cole and Fagerson have been bested by Baille and I think Furlong (and the Irish scrum) are best equipped to give me a tough day out.

                          - Speaking of tight-heads. I think the troubles that Cole and Fagerson have had this tournament and the continuing emergence of John Ryan make him a serious outside chance to tour with the Lions. Continue to show well in his cameos in the Six Nations and get experience and then have a good knock out tournament in Europe with Munster and he might just play himself onto the squad.

                          - Ringrose/Henshaw axis. A tough day out against Scotland followed by a decent outing against a very limited Scotland. Difficult to give any real weighting to the Italy performance due to how bad Italy were. However they are 22 and 23 and the experience will stand to them. They have the ability to really form a first class centre partnership by the end of the Six Nations.

                          - Injuries/opportunities. Ireland have a couple of players the wrong side of thirty (Payne, Ryan, Best) and in some ways the injuries to these players will work in our favour. Yes, it could be argued that Payne's absence could cost us a Slam (particularly given the poor outside defence against Scotland). However it's also an opportunity. Ringrose will learn an awful lot and his growth will be accelerated by the exposure at this level. Same with Scannell seeing game time in the absence of Best and Cronin. The pool has been deepened.

                          - Youth. So many new/younger players are getting exposure at the moment. Scannell, Ryan, Dillane, Ringrose, Tracey, Van Der Flier, Jackson, Gilroy. This can only be good for the future.

                          - England. How much better is Jamie George than Dylan Hartley!

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by cian8 View Post
                            Says a lot when "woohoo" was my first thought at Kearney's injury!


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                            Yes, it says you're a ****!

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                              Is it possible that Ringrose would be a better 12 than 13?

                              He looked more dangerous when Earls moved to 13 (Granted Italy had stopped tackling then) and had a big performance against Australia at 12. Would he be considered at 12 when Payne comes back?

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                                Originally posted by lawrence View Post
                                Is it possible that Ringrose would be a better 12 than 13?

                                He looked more dangerous when Earls moved to 13 (Granted Italy had stopped tackling then) and had a big performance against Australia at 12. Would he be considered at 12 when Payne comes back?
                                Funny I was thinking the same when watching the game

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