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    #31
    Originally posted by sewa View Post
    Thats the official spin on it. Quotas did for him and they will continue to ruin South African rugby
    A buddy of mine is a saffer and he said when cj left he wasnt the player he now is.... i interpretatie that as Ireland/Munster benefitted from CJ, BUT CJ benefitted from it too...

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      #32
      Originally posted by Munstersrebel View Post
      A buddy of mine is a saffer and he said when cj left he wasnt the player he now is.... i interpretatie that as Ireland/Munster benefitted from CJ, BUT CJ benefitted from it too...
      CJ himself has said the same thing - and credited much of his improvement to Anthony Foley.

      I read it in a newspaper interview a year or more ago iirc.

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        #33
        Stander is an endearing cuckoo, but he's keeping O'Mahony out of the Irish team and O'Donoghue out of the Munster team - the best back rowers Munster have produced since Foley, Quinnie, Wally, Leamy.

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          #34
          He's a better player. The others will up their games as a result
          "There are a lot of points that we’ve left behind and this is with a young group. That probably tells you what they’re capable of and that they’re a very good side.

          Probably next year or the year after next they will take some stopping"

          Anthony Foley, May 2016. Axel RIP

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            #35
            Originally posted by HenryFitz View Post
            Stander is an endearing cuckoo, but he's keeping O'Mahony out of the Irish team and O'Donoghue out of the Munster team - the best back rowers Munster have produced since Foley, Quinnie, Wally, Leamy.
            I'm ok with a limited number of imports playing for the provinces. The limit means they're only ever complementing a core squad of home grown players. It strikes a good balance between maintaining our identity, developing players for Ireland, and competing with big money clubs who can hire anyone from anywhere.

            International rugby is different. The whole point of it is that it's representative. Dilute that too much and it becomes no different to the club game - a "battle of the budget" rather than "our best lads versus theirs".

            My criteria would be:
            5 years residency if no family connection.
            3 years residency if one grandparent.
            No residency required if one parent or two grandparents.

            Citizenship as a criterion is too variable and also too messy. For example:
            What citizenship does a Northern Irish lad need to represent Ireland?
            Can any British citizen represent any U.K. country?

            And before anybody plays the xenophobia card, I have absolutely nothing against immigrants.
            I myself have lived outside of Ireland for just over half my life, in six different countries. I have a pretty solid perspective on what it means to be an immigrant, have a sense of belonging (or not) etc. I feel reasonably well qualified to express an opinion on how long it takes to really integrate and become part of a place.

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              #36
              Residency rule changes

              Originally posted by sewa View Post
              Agreed but why would we block a change to five years.It would be the same rule for everyone so hit us all pretty much equally. Its only because he left that Ben Teo isnt blocking Scannell and Ringrose
              I am not comfortable with the current situation. Everyone knows it is being abused so we should not block reform. Although, perhaps it is a negotiation stance for the World Cup? Although it could backfire.

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                #37
                Originally posted by Waterfordlad View Post
                He's a better player. The others will up their games as a result
                Maybe so, but probably not better enough to overtake Stander, who will be getting better by playing against better players at international level, and who's never injured. O'Mahony could conceivably wait for Heaslip to grow old, but Stander is 26 and O'Donoghue 22. The prime of O'Donoghue's career will be spent subbing for Stander.

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post
                  I'm ok with a limited number of imports playing for the provinces. The limit means they're only ever complementing a core squad of home grown players. It strikes a good balance between maintaining our identity, developing players for Ireland, and competing with big money clubs who can hire anyone from anywhere.

                  International rugby is different. The whole point of it is that it's representative. Dilute that too much and it becomes no different to the club game - a "battle of the budget" rather than "our best lads versus theirs".

                  My criteria would be:
                  5 years residency if no family connection.
                  3 years residency if one grandparent.
                  No residency required if one parent or two grandparents.

                  Citizenship as a criterion is too variable and also too messy. For example:
                  What citizenship does a Northern Irish lad need to represent Ireland?
                  Can any British citizen represent any U.K. country?

                  And before anybody plays the xenophobia card, I have absolutely nothing against immigrants.
                  I myself have lived outside of Ireland for just over half my life, in six different countries. I have a pretty solid perspective on what it means to be an immigrant, have a sense of belonging (or not) etc. I feel reasonably well qualified to express an opinion on how long it takes to really integrate and become part of a place.
                  That will never happen. You can qualify immediately with grandparent(s) from a country. There will never be any regs stating you must have more than 1 grand parent from a country.
                  And there wont ever be any situation where you have several different qualification set ups in terms of years of residency

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                    #39
                    Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
                    That will never happen. You can qualify immediately with grandparent(s) from a country. There will never be any regs stating you must have more than 1 grand parent from a country.
                    And there wont ever be any situation where you have several different qualification set ups in terms of years of residency
                    You're like Mystic Meg with all those predictions.

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                      #40
                      Will they eventually limit the number of Residence-rule qualified players allowed in a national outfit?

                      1. 2.Big Tom Mac 3. Finlay Bealham
                      4. Quinn Roux 5. Jean Kleyn
                      6. Ruddock 8. CJ 7. Jake Heenan
                      9. JGP 10. Tyler
                      11. 12. 13. 14.
                      15.

                      Just saying like...
                      Gwan Joe!!

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post
                        You're like Mystic Meg with all those predictions.
                        But why should you be able to limit people who qualify through the regs? Selection regulations like what New Zealand do is different. Selection based on residency qualification could quite easily be taken up in court.
                        Why should you have to have more than 1 gp to qualify and which countries will ever vote that in/that to change?
                        And why would countries want to confuse the issue with different qualification periods for different players?

                        Originally posted by ustix View Post
                        Will they eventually limit the number of Residence-rule qualified players allowed in a national outfit?

                        1. 2.Big Tom Mac 3. Finlay Bealham
                        4. Quinn Roux 5. Jean Kleyn
                        6. Ruddock 8. CJ 7. Jake Heenan
                        9. JGP 10. Tyler
                        11. 12. 13. 14.
                        15.

                        Just saying like...
                        How can you limit players? And Ruddock isn't a residency qualified player. His mother is Irish.
                        Bealham has an Irish granny.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
                          But why should you be able to limit people who qualify through the regs? Selection regulations like what New Zealand do is different. Selection based on residency qualification could quite easily be taken up in court.
                          Why should you have to have more than 1 gp to qualify and which countries will ever vote that in/that to change?
                          And why would countries want to confuse the issue with different qualification periods for different players?

                          How can you limit players? And Ruddock isn't a residency qualified player. His mother is Irish.
                          Bealham has an Irish granny.
                          In the manner that RSA can only play a limited number of Caucasian players.
                          Herbst at 1. so, Ah You for Finlay, Aki at 13 and so on...
                          Last edited by ustix; 21st-January-2017, 19:57.
                          Gwan Joe!!

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
                            But why should you be able to limit people who qualify through the regs? Selection regulations like what New Zealand do is different. Selection based on residency qualification could quite easily be taken up in court.
                            Why should you have to have more than 1 gp to qualify and which countries will ever vote that in/that to change?
                            And why would countries want to confuse the issue with different qualification periods for different players?

                            How can you limit players? And Ruddock isn't a residency qualified player. His mother is Irish.
                            Bealham has an Irish granny.
                            I'm saying I would like the current regs changed to what I described, to apply to all countries. They're pretty simple changes and we already have qualification on residency and family connections so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make about it being challenged in court.

                            The reason for my suggestions is that they would reduce the number of lads seeking to play international rugby under a flag of convenience.

                            If a player comes to a country and really falls in love with the place and begins to feel a sense of belonging - something that takes a bit of time - he'll be prepared to do the 5 years to become eligible. If he's not and fecks off somewhere else (a la Ben Teo) he can hardly claim to have really integrated and committed to the country. He just wants international rugby wherever he can get it.

                            If a player who has a single Irish grandparent has been raised supporting Ireland, feeling Irish, and grows up wanting to play for Ireland, he should be happy enough to come and put in three years in the country he thinks of as a home from home (the way many young Exiles like Wootten have over the years). If not, then again I question their commitment to the country in the first place.

                            Representative rugby's USP is based on limitations around qualification. Without those limitations it's no different to the club game except the teams are named after countries rather than cities, regions or provinces.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post
                              I'm saying I would like the current regs changed to what I described, to apply to all countries. They're pretty simple changes and we already have qualification on residency and family connections so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make about it being challenged in court.

                              The reason for my suggestions is that they would reduce the number of lads seeking to play international rugby under a flag of convenience.

                              If a player comes to a country and really falls in love with the place and begins to feel a sense of belonging - something that takes a bit of time - he'll be prepared to do the 5 years to become eligible. If he's not and fecks off somewhere else (a la Ben Teo) he can hardly claim to have really integrated and committed to the country. He just wants international rugby wherever he can get it.

                              If a player who has a single Irish grandparent has been raised supporting Ireland, feeling Irish, and grows up wanting to play for Ireland, he should be happy enough to come and put in three years in the country he thinks of as a home from home (the way many young Exiles like Wootten have over the years). If not, then again I question their commitment to the country in the first place.

                              Representative rugby's USP is based on limitations around qualification. Without those limitations it's no different to the club game except the teams are named after countries rather than cities, regions or provinces.
                              Is Munster a province or a club?
                              Gwan Joe!!

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by ustix View Post
                                Is Munster a province or a club?
                                Both. We call it a province but it is also a club.

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