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What have we learnt from Autumn Internationals?

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    What have we learnt from Autumn Internationals?

    3 wins out of 4 including beating the All Blacks is probably more than most people expected beforehand.

    The good.
    We've beaten All Blacks for first time ever and ran them close in rematch even with injuries.
    We beat Aus coming from behind with a big injury impacted backline.
    Ringrose, Carberry, Furlong, Bealham, VDF have come through as viable internationals.
    Donnacha Ryan has also reminded us of his international capabilities.
    Our depth is improving and losing the likes of Sexton, Henshaw, SOB, POM etc is not quite the disaster it would have been.

    The bad.
    In attack even with scoring 8 tries in 3 games against Aus/NZ we didn't score or create enough scoring opportunities when we dominated possession.
    We still need to get a viable option for Murray
    We still need to get some back 5 players with a combination of power/pace.

    #2
    Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post
    3 wins out of 4 including beating the All Blacks is probably more than most people expected beforehand.

    The good.
    We've beaten All Blacks for first time ever and ran them close in rematch even with injuries.
    We beat Aus coming from behind with a big injury impacted backline.
    Ringrose, Carberry, Furlong, Bealham, VDF have come through as viable internationals.
    Donnacha Ryan has also reminded us of his international capabilities.
    Our depth is improving and losing the likes of Sexton, Henshaw, SOB, POM etc is not quite the disaster it would have been.

    The bad.
    In attack even with scoring 8 tries in 3 games against Aus/NZ we didn't score or create enough scoring opportunities when we dominated possession.
    We still need to get a viable option for Murray
    We still need to get some back 5 players with a combination of power/pace.

    we are rudderless without sexton. 1-9 have been excellent all November, but the difference in the team with and without sexton is stark.
    I'd like to see Carbery take on the place kicking when he plays for Leinster. He's going to be our next 10, not Jackson.

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      #3
      Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post
      3 wins out of 4 including beating the All Blacks is probably more than most people expected beforehand.

      The good.
      We've beaten All Blacks for first time ever and ran them close in rematch even with injuries.
      We beat Aus coming from behind with a big injury impacted backline.
      Ringrose, Carberry, Furlong, Bealham, VDF have come through as viable internationals.
      Donnacha Ryan has also reminded us of his international capabilities.
      Our depth is improving and losing the likes of Sexton, Henshaw, SOB, POM etc is not quite the disaster it would have been.

      The bad.
      In attack even with scoring 8 tries in 3 games against Aus/NZ we didn't score or create enough scoring opportunities when we dominated possession.
      We still need to get a viable option for Murray
      We still need to get some back 5 players with a combination of power/pace.
      And just plain bulk/size. The Irish backs looked really small compared with their Oz counterparts today (but still played heroically and nicked the win). There are some, like McCloskey and Stockdale (Ulster), Byrne and Daly (Lenister) coming through who are large, strong and have a bit of pace. And of course Henshaw, when fit, fits the bill. Zebo and Earls have some gas and have improved their defensive game immensley.
      Young Ringrose is slim but strong, but has shown he's quite a tough nut. A centre partnership of Henshaw/Ringrose is a good starting point to build on. Payne should be moved to FB at the expence of R. Kearney (thoughTOH is also worth a look).
      Overall, I think it was a good autumn series for Ireland considering the injury problems they had to deal with before and during games.

      Re. an option for Murray - the bench scrum halves will never progress unless they get significant game time. Joe is reluctant to pull Murray off, but Marmion is not a bad player and a real feisty competitor. I'd like to see him get some more time off the bench, espcially when Ireland are plating lesser teams, just to see what he can do.
      Erse end of nowhere

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        #4
        Originally posted by ackbar View Post
        we are rudderless without sexton. 1-9 have been excellent all November, but the difference in the team with and without sexton is stark.
        I'd like to see Carbery take on the place kicking when he plays for Leinster. He's going to be our next 10, not Jackson.
        Why are so many posters hard on Jackson? He has kicked 14 kicks in a row for Ireland, and probably was the reason we won today. There is more to his game than just kicking - he's a good runner and distributer too, and a strong defender. He is well ahead of Carbery in experience and at present is a better kicker. Carbery is a wonderful prospect with great confidence in himself. His time will come. Whatever - the pair of them will provide adequate backup for sexton for the forseeable future. Sexton is more and more injury prone, partly down to the way he plays, and Ireland may be more and more without his services as his career winds down. It will get to the point where he is no longer an automatic starter.
        Erse end of nowhere

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          #5
          For us to have come through the series out of 4 having lost some of the players we did is pretty remarkable I think. We went out against Oz with late changes in the back row, our second line 10, missing our first choice ten, lost Payne and had to bring a pretty green 10 on at fullback.

          Yesterday did feel a bit like crisis management at times but, having gone behind, stemming that Oz resurgence to come back and score the winner was a great effort.

          Assuming we keep key players fit, I'd say we head into the 6N needing to settle on a backs line up that can deliver on its array of individual talent. A line for me with the likes of Sexton, Henshaw, Ringrose, Earls, Zebo, Ringrose, Payne, Trimble should be opening teams. And we still have the likes of Healy, Gilroy, Scannell, O'Halloran, Marshall, Olding, McCloskey et al in and around that. It will take a fair bit of work to hammer the best combination out of that lot though.

          Things in the pack look good. We have option at TH and LH, locks who can play at test level, depth in every position in the back row.


          We still sometimes fall into lateral play, but we seem far more willing to keep the ball in hand and play. Our scrum is strong and our line out solid.


          My one worry is that we're just not efficient enough with possession, and that could cost us against a team like England, who won't give us 70% of the ball.

          There's time to work on that though.
          "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

          "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


          "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

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            #6
            Originally posted by Spiffy View Post
            Why are so many posters hard on Jackson? He has kicked 14 kicks in a row for Ireland, and probably was the reason we won today. There is more to his game than just kicking - he's a good runner and distributer too, and a strong defender. He is well ahead of Carbery in experience and at present is a better kicker. Carbery is a wonderful prospect with great confidence in himself. His time will come. Whatever - the pair of them will provide adequate backup for sexton for the forseeable future. Sexton is more and more injury prone, partly down to the way he plays, and Ireland may be more and more without his services as his career winds down. It will get to the point where he is no longer an automatic starter.
            To be honest I think Jackson isn't adventurous enough in taking the ball to the line and attacking the opposition. We need to be more concerned with scoring tries than making sure we make every goal kick.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Spiffy View Post
              Why are so many posters hard on Jackson? He has kicked 14 kicks in a row for Ireland, and probably was the reason we won today. There is more to his game than just kicking - he's a good runner and distributer too, and a strong defender. He is well ahead of Carbery in experience and at present is a better kicker. Carbery is a wonderful prospect with great confidence in himself. His time will come. Whatever - the pair of them will provide adequate backup for sexton for the forseeable future. Sexton is more and more injury prone, partly down to the way he plays, and Ireland may be more and more without his services as his career winds down. It will get to the point where he is no longer an automatic starter.
              It's an odd one spiffy. Jackson was crucified when he missed a few kicks on his debut (despite a great game with ball in hand and being badly let down by an experienced Ireland side) and this has continued since then despite a marked improvement off the tee...

              PJ was rock solid in defence yesterday, kicked his goals and got the back line moving well. Either of two loose kicks could have cost us the game tho and he has to improve that side of his game.

              You can't help feeling that if carberry had guided Ireland to victories over RSA & Australia he'd already be anointed as the Irish Dan Carter!



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                #8
                What have we learnt from Autumn Internationals?

                McGrath, Best, Furlong, Toner, CJ, Heaslip, Murray, Henshaw and Payne are the linchpins of this new side. Others such as; POM, SOB, Sexton and Henderson will, if they can get a decent run without further injuries, also add enormously to the potential of this team.

                In addition and with the slight exception of one or two positions (eg scrum half), where the drop off between Murray and the rest is significant, our emerging strength in depth is also really encouraging and we can finally win games from a loosing position.

                What has struck me the most however about this series is a sense that the baton has finally been passed from the "golden generation" to a new crop of guys and while a lot can and no doubt will happen in terms of setbacks over the next few years, this new group has certainly given Irish Rugby a new found optimism. Well done Joe and team and thank you for a most enjoyable month.


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                Last edited by supiebrian; 27th-November-2016, 11:00.

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                  #9
                  Depth wise, Irish rugby has never been in a better place. I think the fact we don't know our first choice team (particularly in back row and back 3) is a testimony to that.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    We learnt that there's great depth in the squad.
                    We got lucky with the original golden generation but it seems like this new generation are stepping off a conveyor belt. There are more to come.

                    The pack is world class.

                    The team is mentally very strong. They don't have the hang ups of old. They looked beaten against NZ and Australia in the second half of both games but fought back for the win. Now these young players have wins against NZ and Australia.

                    Fitness levels are very high. Furlong best typifies it.

                    Ireland's attack needs a bit of work. A bit more creativity and vision would go a long way.

                    The injuries must have something to do with Ireland's style of play. Lots of hard carrying and lots of rucks.

                    The coaching team is very good. A mention especially for Simon Easterby as the pack were very well drilled.

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                      #11
                      The complaint I have about paddy Jackson is that, with a pack clearly on top and a back line clearly in trouble, he did not have the game management to sit a little deeper and start kicking in behind Australia. He put massive pressure on his backs by trying to stick with a running game despite the unfamiliar combinations all around him.
                      In the All black game he also didn't try any little chips over the top or grubbers to counteract the rush defence.
                      He has probably been playing with a beaten pack and good back line for too long


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                        #12
                        Originally posted by Upfront_1979 View Post
                        The complaint I have about paddy Jackson is that, with a pack clearly on top and a back line clearly in trouble, he did not have the game management to sit a little deeper and start kicking in behind Australia. He put massive pressure on his backs by trying to stick with a running game despite the unfamiliar combinations all around him.
                        In the All black game he also didn't try any little chips over the top or grubbers to counteract the rush defence.
                        He has probably been playing with a beaten pack and good back line for too long


                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                        I think there'd be an argument that he was right. Australia looked dangerous on the ball whenever they got it, and I was delighted that we denied it to them. I don't think I'd have liked to see him kicking to Folau. I was nervous enough on the few up and unders we did put up.

                        Would our makeshift backline have been able to keep tight on the chase? I'm not sure at all.
                        "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                        "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                        "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

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                          #13
                          We learned that the golden generation was only 9 carat. We might have a better crop of players now

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                            #14
                            I think our pack is great, absolutely fantastic. Brought us home beautifully yesterday, and were magnificent overall.

                            What Schmidt does in the backrow for the 6 Nations if the players keep going the way they're going is anyone's guess.

                            Heaslip, VDF, CJ all did really well, but than you've SOB and POM..

                            SOB..needs to have a good run of games without an injury, I think he was great but can he sustain it at this level, injury free. We can only hope.
                            POM..didn't have the same preparation SOB did, he had very little time to concentrate on his own game. He made it 100% clear to Schmidt in the short period of time that he was on the pitch, that he had zero intentions of leaving go of his jersey any time soon.
                            Not only was he at his furious best but the team settled down when he came on, his presence alone had a calming effect.

                            I'd like to see a combination of CJ, VDF and POM. But I don't think we'll get it, even if Heaslip was playing terribly and he's not, he's playing really well, he's one of a handful of undroppables.

                            When it comes to our backs, we're solid with the likes of Henshaw and Payne etc.

                            Jackson can do no right when it comes to some people, yes he made an error or two in the game..he's human, it happens. He did well, took his kicks well and I don't know what more we can ask of him.

                            Scrum half: Murray is phenomenal, but it's this position we're stuck at. Marmion did well on the wing yesterday but never again please. We've sweet fck all other options at 9..which leads me to this, now I know I'm biased, and I know it's unrealistic and it won't happen, but Peter Stringer is sitting in England, with 99 Irish caps, and is still playing really well, surely he could be an option for Schmidt.

                            Ringrose has the potential to be a very good player, but can everyone please stop comparing him to BOD. Give the kid a chance.

                            Kearney's more lives than a Buddhist cat at this stage. But he's another player Schmidt will not drop.
                            I think it was Horgan who said at half time that Schmidt would have been pulling his hair out at Zebo's flick through when we scored the try. I know Kearney play's Schmidt's game, but I can't see how he can keep justifying his selection if things keep going the way they're going.

                            Zebo I think was one of our most important players over the series, he's really turned in to a leader this season and really has stepped up his game. He's giving Schmidt no reason to drop him these days, that must be frustrating.

                            So a lot of positives, and overall it was a great series, lets see what happens come the 6 Nations.
                            Last edited by Stringer9; 27th-November-2016, 12:24.
                            The Maul is Back!! LONG LIVE THE MAUL!!

                            Stringer is bigger even than his own immense shadow. Pound for pound, he is the best tackler in the world. If you put him into bag of cats he\'d come out without a scratch. He was hit very late for Murphy\'s try. And when he got up, as we knew he would, the crowd cried his name as if he had just fixed the economy.Billy Keane-After Munster\'s famous loss to the AB\'s.

                            The Bull-Truly irreplaceable, a mountain of a man. 100 caps!!

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by bosh12 View Post
                              Depth wise, Irish rugby has never been in a better place. I think the fact we don't know our first choice team (particularly in back row and back 3) is a testimony to that.
                              If we have this great depth, and all these players play in Ireland, why have our provinces been so poor in the last couple of years in Europe?

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