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6 Nations Tournament..... Meh

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  • Red Hand Hero
    replied
    I don't think it was a poor tournament on the whole, certainly no worse than last years on the year before. The main difference was the Championship had already been won by the final round and thus the two early games on the Saturday were mere formalities until it was left to England to claim their first slam in however long. Italy and Ireland were poorer than in previous years, the Scots improved and the Welsh/French somewhere at the level they've normally been in the last couple of seasons.

    I think Ireland's non-performance's, failure to bring in youth across all five games not to mention three fairly turgid performance's in the opening three games is the not-so-small elephant in the room. The continuance of a Payne/Henshaw midfield, Bobert's seeming undropability except for injury, the over-reliance on ruck resourcing as well as a regression in our set-piece mauls (except against Scotland) and a reduced accuracy/efficiency at ruck time minus a good few important carriers meant that Joe-Ball 1.0 was always going to struggle and he failed to adapt.

    It was, IMO, his inability to adapt in the aftermath of the RWC really cost us a crack at the 6N. His blind faith in some seriously underperforming players and lack of trust in younger form players was also pretty unforgiveable. He glossed over a really sh1t 6N with a trouncing of the worst Italian side in years and an improving but still limited Scottish side. For all the Dorse/Drico talk during the Scotland game about evolution and improvement I think that's shyte personally. I don't think Joe has it in him to clear the decks, with some quarters already talking about a 'historic chance' to defeat an AB side shorn of Carter, McCaw, Nonu, Smith, Sonny-Bill, etc etc will play into his conservative hands.

    South Africa will be about reintegrating the Bowe's, O'Briens and Henderson's. It will be about getting our ruck resourcing back to past levels. It will be about continuing to pick shyte players on the bench because they cover more positions regardless of how poorly they do this. Dillane will be cast aside, as will McCloskey in favour of a returning Loooooookey boy. VDF might get a crack on the basis he was slightly more favoured during the 6N but that's by no means a given.

    I'm going to stop talking about POC being a loss because we knew prior to the RWC he was retiring. POM, SOB and Henderson highlighted that we don't have this vast array of depth up front. Stander aside I don't think TOD or VDF really set the world alight as openside options. Heaslip upped his game with Stander breathing down his collar but I forgot he's 32 coming 33...he's no spring chicken either. Toner and Ryan were a limited if committed lock pairing though I felt Ryan seemed to grow into the tournament. Very disenfranchised with the whole Irish set-up at the moment. Best is struggling with the weight of captaincy and the second best hooker in Ireland, IMO, is behind him for Ulster. We've nobody currently good enough to replace Ross and I am really disappointed that Furlong was not persisted with even after his Paris showing. Reddan's continued inclusion was as infuriating as it was pointless. Madigan, ditto. McFadden, same again and Robnoxious hasn't been close to form in maybe 18 or more months now. I'd say 7 years if i wished to be slightly harsh but generally accurate. Only plus points for me was Sexton seeming to put his head knocks behind him though his football impersonation was diabolical. Henshaw the few times he got into the 13 channel. Zebo and Earls looking improved threats with ball in hand.

    Very unenthused about Team Ireland and Schmidt's Green Monkey's at present. I hope the tour to RSA rejuvenates but I can't see it myself.

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  • sewa
    replied
    Originally posted by Daithi View Post
    Nope Sewa, I thought the tournament as a whole was very flat, the adjudicating poor, the sanctioning worse, with player welfare high on everybody who cares agenda, and my post reflects concerns around those issues and looks for some constructive suggestions to maybe mproving it. Sorry for your old gripes all the same, it must be terrible.
    Your position is very clear, there is no reason to repeat it

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  • Daithi
    replied
    Originally posted by redherring View Post
    I would introduce the BP system. I would also move the tournament forward two weeks. Drier and warmer conditions will improve the standard of rugby.
    Yeah Red,
    That maybe a really good idea actually, start the 6Ns around mid to3rd week in Feb instead. Better conditions, Warner air temps and less soft tissue injuries not to mention nicer conditions for the supporters to watch the games live. if that could be agreed with the various club's &leagues that could be a winner imho.

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  • Daithi
    replied
    Originally posted by sewa View Post
    I.e. they didn't work out the way you wanted them to. The Irish players are whiter than white and everyone else is a thug
    Nope Sewa, I thought the tournament as a whole was very flat, the adjudicating poor, the sanctioning worse, with player welfare high on everybody who cares agenda, and my post reflects concerns around those issues and looks for some constructive suggestions to maybe mproving it. Sorry for your old gripes all the same, it must be terrible.

    Leave a comment:


  • the plastic paddy
    replied
    Originally posted by Old Dog View Post
    Ah, but SOB's ban was for sheer cretinism and, in that regard, was fully deserved.
    It wasn't the brightest thing ever seen, but I would say Marler's "Gypsy Boy" comment would, at the very least, be on a par.

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  • sewa
    replied
    Originally posted by Daithi View Post
    They rotate it a bit but this is no excuse for standards dropping in the application of the laws imho, international refs should provide international level consistency.

    Allied to ref inaction on discipline on the pitch, the sanctioning off the pitch was very poor imho & did the 6Ns & game a huge disservice imho.
    I.e. they didn't work out the way you wanted them to. The Irish players are whiter than white and everyone else is a thug

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  • Old Dog
    replied
    Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post
    Marler's elbow to someone's head not prompting a ban was crazy compared to SOB slapping that scum bug in his midriff.
    Ah, but SOB's ban was for sheer cretinism and, in that regard, was fully deserved.

    Leave a comment:


  • redherring
    replied
    I don't think the crowd participation is an issue. The atmospheres are non-existent in the southern hemisphere. I would introduce the BP system. I would also move the tournament forward two weeks. Drier and warmer conditions will improve the standard of rugby.
    Last edited by redherring; 23rd-March-2016, 11:34.

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  • Daithi
    replied
    Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post
    Didn't they pretty much drop all the top refs for the 6nations to bring in younger less experienced refs for most games?
    They rotate it a bit but this is no excuse for standards dropping in the application of the laws imho, international refs should provide international level consistency.

    Allied to ref inaction on discipline on the pitch, the sanctioning off the pitch was very poor imho & did the 6Ns & game a huge disservice imho.

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  • Daithi
    replied
    Sewa, I see your point, can you at least bold or italics the change to my original, ta, D

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  • In Joe we trust
    replied
    Originally posted by Daithi View Post
    Bps could easily be introduced. If people are so concerned about having just 1 extra home or away game versus their opposition, they could always put a premium on away Bps won e.g double those bps say, simple

    In this 6Ns, after a really good Rwc for officiating, the standards went off a cliff imho. There didn't seem to be nearly the consistency in application of the laws as there was only 5 months previously. Secondly the TMO work was slow at times. Finally & worst of all imho , the sanctioning of offences after games was really woeful and inconsistent e.g. the hits on Sexton and Dave Kearney in Paris, deserved sanctions when not acted on properly in the game, the reckless use of the boot (5 times in a row) by Mike Brown on Conor Murray in the English match and the lack of a sanction for same were just some (Irish) examples of poor or non sanctioning for indisciplined or dirty play. In a game struggling with player health issues this is simple not good enough tbh.
    Didn't they pretty much drop all the top refs for the 6nations to bring in younger less experienced refs for most games?

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  • sewa
    replied
    Originally posted by Daithi View Post
    -Sabotaging of club game by international sides, in Ireland especially
    Fixed

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  • the plastic paddy
    replied
    Originally posted by Daithi View Post
    Bps could easily be introduced. If people are so concerned about having just 1 extra home or away game versus their opposition, they could always put a premium on away Bps won e.g double those bps say, simple

    In this 6Ns, after a really good Rwc for officiating, the standards went off a cliff imho. There didn't seem to be nearly the consistency in application of the laws as there was only 5 months previously. Secondly the TMO work was slow at times. Finally & worst of all imho , the sanctioning of offences after games was really woeful and inconsistent e.g. the hits on Sexton and Dave Kearney in Paris, deserved sanctions when not acted on properly in the game, the reckless use of the boot (5 times in a row) by Mike Brown on Conor Murray in the English match and the lack of a sanction for same were just some (Irish) examples of poor or non sanctioning for indisciplined or dirty play. In a game struggling with player health issues this is simple not good enough tbh.
    Marler's elbow to someone's head not prompting a ban was crazy compared to SOB slapping that scum bug in his midriff.

    Leave a comment:


  • Daithi
    replied
    Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
    Bonus points are not needed for the tournament. The differences with teams having odd numbers of home/away games and the issue of grand slam, even though you take it into account, mean it shouldn't come in.
    That most other tournaments have a bonus point system doesn't automatically mean the 6Nations should have one in place.
    The issue about referees and TMOs is probably better discussed in the laws thread but what exactly do you want changed about referee interpretations
    Bps could easily be introduced. If people are so concerned about having just 1 extra home or away game versus their opposition, they could always put a premium on away Bps won e.g double those bps say, simple

    In this 6Ns, after a really good Rwc for officiating, the standards went off a cliff imho. There didn't seem to be nearly the consistency in application of the laws as there was only 5 months previously. Secondly the TMO work was slow at times. Finally & worst of all imho , the sanctioning of offences after games was really woeful and inconsistent e.g. the hits on Sexton and Dave Kearney in Paris, deserved sanctions when not acted on properly in the game, the reckless use of the boot (5 times in a row) by Mike Brown on Conor Murray in the English match and the lack of a sanction for same were just some (Irish) examples of poor or non sanctioning for indisciplined or dirty play. In a game struggling with player health issues this is simple not good enough tbh.
    Last edited by Daithi; 22nd-March-2016, 20:15.

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  • ormond lad
    replied
    Originally posted by Daithi View Post
    Following Rwc 15 & now 6Ns 2016 it's quite clear northern hemisphere rugby is in a pretty poor state. Just some of the issues for me are :

    -Poor standard of play with a Lack of attacking ambition
    -Sabotaging of international game by clubs, in France especially
    -Dull matches, with low crowd participation of
    -Poor officiating and inconsistent disciplinary measures

    Some simple improvements might be :
    The introduction of bonus points.
    (double them for any grand slam (all match) winner, so say a team that wins all 5 games would win the 6Ns championship automatically as is currently the case).Also a system where its Bps based on tries difference might be best e.g get 3 more tries than opposition => a BP win

    - clear Referee directives on interpretation would help

    - TMO directives should also be greatly improved

    This has been a great tournament over the years, it would be a shame to see it decline simply due to inaction on modernising and standardising it, as most other modern tournaments have already done. Any thoughts ?!?
    Bonus points are not needed for the tournament. The differences with teams having odd numbers of home/away games and the issue of grand slam, even though you take it into account, mean it shouldn't come in.
    That most other tournaments have a bonus point system doesn't automatically mean the 6Nations should have one in place.
    The issue about referees and TMOs is probably better discussed in the laws thread but what exactly do you want changed about referee interpretations etc.

    Originally posted by tigerburnie View Post
    No need to change the laws or the game, just get the current laws applied, first lets penalize not straight for feeds into the scrum and also offside. I wouldn't mind banning lifting in the lineouts and the return off proper rucking though.
    Banning lifting. ah here!!
    I don't think any laws changes are needed too much...

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