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    The IRFU, the provinces & Project Players.

    Am I the only one who thinks this is getting out of hand?

    We now have a handful of Irish Qualified through residency players in Carton House and in and around the team. Do we have 4 currently??


    What we also have is a number of other players at provinces with a stated ambition of playing for Ireland at test level.

    I read an interview with Van De Heever last week where he stated that part of the reason he came here was with a view to playing for the National Side.

    It has always been a stated ambition of CJ Stander to play for Ireland after he was told by HM that he was too small to play in the back row for RSA. Its great being second choice isn't it!!

    Now Bundee Aki has arrived and has stated in a interview that part of his decision making process in coming to Ireland was that he hoped to play for Ireland.

    It seems to be a carrot the provinces are waving in these players faces. . . .but surely the IRFU or IRB will have to draw the line somewhere

    It is getting out of hand imo . . . . . .and thats only the few players that come to mind now. There may well be more at Leinster and Ulster

    Imagine if all these players were some day in the same Irish team . . . . . It would be like the Ba Ba's!!!!!!!
    Last edited by Corcíoch; 31st-October-2014, 11:41.

    #2
    No different from any other test side nowadays Corcioch, I'd also suggest that the effort and commitment to Munster that CJ has shown is a clear indicator that he buys into this community and living in Ireland, so if that makes him 'Irish' so be it. If an english person lives here for 40 years he's still known as a 'blow in', or what about kids of Irish parentage in the UK who consider themselves to be Irish, such as Jack Grealish in football? There have been a few Irish born and raised cricketers play for England too

    Sports put to one side, the advent of more and cheaper travel and easier migration has had an impact on national identity and how you can be considered citizen.
    I am the million man.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
      No different from any other test side nowadays Corcioch, I'd also suggest that the effort and commitment to Munster that CJ has shown is a clear indicator that he buys into this community and living in Ireland, so if that makes him 'Irish' so be it. If an english person lives here for 40 years he's still known as a 'blow in', or what about kids of Irish parentage in the UK who consider themselves to be Irish, such as Jack Grealish in football? There have been a few Irish born and raised cricketers play for England too

      Sports put to one side, the advent of more and cheaper travel and easier migration has had an impact on national identity and how you can be considered citizen.
      I dunno. It's becoming a free for all now. Would winning a WC with 50% of the team from outside Ireland mean as much- I dunno.

      It's one thing uppping sticks and coming here as a young lad to live here from another country.

      It's entirely another using the 3 year residency just to play international rugby. At the end of the day stander and Aki are only here because they can't play for their native country. And the reality is they'd have gone somewhere else if they were paid more money.

      I wouldn't give Stander or Aki any kudos whatsoever for applying themselves as professional rugby players

      a)- that's what they are paid to do.
      b)- Plenty of Irish players do that too.
      I always knew Madigan was a closet Scrum Half. Ignore All things that suggest Continuity.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Corcíoch View Post
        Am I the only one who thinks this is getting out of hand?
        Fully agree...it has long past getting out of hand. Capping Bent off the plane (has a worse player played for Ireland?) was a new low and forever devalued Irish caps, as was Ayr you joking on the summer tour.

        I love what CJ is doing for Munster currently, but have no interest in seeing him play for Ireland. The biggest joke was Strauss making his debut against his own family a few years back...and now, somehow being called back into the squad on the back of little game time this season over the form hooker in the country who cant even get in as third choice it seems.

        I dont care who else does it, I want to see Irish players, by birth or direct parentage, play for the Irish team. If that means we are not as succesful, then so be it. The IRB allow this farce go on thou, and should at the very least double the residencey requiremet to 6 years. Not saying its right after 6, but at least it would severely limit the numbers.

        Bent/Struass/Diack/Ay You/White/Payne etc... none of them would have a hope of playing for their own countries and shoudl not be allowed to for us.Sad times.
        Last edited by LLCOOLJ14; 31st-October-2014, 12:15.
        Seas suas agus troid!

        Comment


          #5
          Its not about folks who come here to live . . . . Its only a matter of time before we see Inter County teams/ National Teams all made up of young 1st generation Irish kids born to African parents or Polish or Lithuanian parents living here.

          I think that is brilliant and would not apologise for a second if a national side was full of such players.


          But folks who jump ship and move to play test Rugby. No, there has to be a limit put on that somewhere . . . . .Its great to see CJ at Munster, I'm a huge fan of the guy. Its great to see Aki at Connacht and I'm looking forward to seeing him play.

          But stocking the Test side with residency qualified players is too much imo and there should be a limit imposed or something.

          Comment


            #6
            I don't want to see several residency qualified players playing for the national team but while I don't think we should put in a limit or be allowed by IRB to put in a limit I don't think we'll have the case of a team being totally stocked with residency qualified players

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by LLCOOLJ14 View Post
              Fully agree...it has long past getting out of hand. Capping Bent off the plane (has a worse player played for Ireland?) was a new low and forever devalued Irish caps, as was Ayr you joking on the summer tour.

              I love what CJ is doing for Munster currently, but have no interest in seeing him play for Ireland. The biggest joke was Strauss making his debut against his own family a few years back...and now, somehow being called back into the squad on the back of little game time this season over the form hooker in the country who cant even get in as third choice it seems.

              I dont care who else does it, I want to see Irish players, by birth or direct parentage, play for the Irish team. If that means we are not as succesful, then so be it. The IRB allow this farce go on thou, and should at the very least double the residencey requiremet to 6 years. Not saying its right after 6, but at least it would severely limit the numbers.

              Bent/Struass/Diack/Ay You/White/Payne etc... none of them would have a hope of playing for their own countries and shoudl not be allowed to for us.Sad times.
              Bent shouldn't be included with the residency players, he qualifies through family. And yes, there have been far worse players tog out for Ireland, you've even mentioned one in your next sentence.

              Agree with you that the residency qualification is too low, should be at least 5 years. However it's a growing trend in many sports, not just rugby.

              Comment


                #8
                I'm never sure if I believe them all, or if part of it is pantomime around the "project player" contracts. Guys can get put outside the NIQ quota by being uncapped and declaring interest, and then head to France or wherever when their 3 year contract is up anyway.

                Do project players have to make any sort of formal commitment to playing for Ireland at the outset?
                "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                Comment


                  #9
                  Ultimately you could buy your national side if you put the money behind it . .the way things stand.

                  Offer up and coming stars enough money . . .in what is a very finite career . . .and you could poach from all over world and stock a team of stars . .an International Toulon so to speak.

                  All it would take is alot alot of cash . . . .its entirely possible the way things stand.

                  Maybe not in Ireland as the provinces are expected to balance their budgets and dont have millions and milions . .

                  But a country who wanted to put huge money behind the National side . . .


                  I can see it happening as a certainty in 7's

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Corcíoch View Post
                    Ultimately you could buy your national side if you put the money behind it . .the way things stand.

                    Offer up and coming stars enough money . . .in what is a very finite career . . .and you could poach from all over world and stock a team of stars . .an International Toulon so to speak.

                    All it would take is alot alot of cash . . . .its entirely possible the way things stand.

                    Maybe not in Ireland as the provinces are expected to balance their budgets and dont have millions and milions . .

                    But a country who wanted to put huge money behind the National side . . .
                    We've headed that way with project players. It's one thing deciding to cap guys who happen to be living and playing here long enough to qualify. I think it's another to hold out the offer of eventual international rugby at the point of offer and bring guys in with the express intention of capping them later.

                    How would we feel if the RFU approached JJ, brokered a contract with Bath and capped him for the next world cup?
                    "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                    "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                    "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Corcíoch View Post
                      Am I the only one who thinks this is getting out of hand?

                      We now have a handful of Irish Qualified through residency players in Carton House and in and around the team. Do we have 4 currently??


                      What we also have is a number of other players at provinces with a stated ambition of playing for Ireland at test level.

                      I read an interview with Van De Heever last week where he stated that part of the reason he came here was with a view to playing for the National Side.

                      It has always been a stated ambition of CJ Stander to play for Ireland after he was told by HM that he was too small to play in the back row for RSA. Its great being second choice isn't it!!

                      Now Bundee Aki has arrived and has stated in a interview that part of his decision making process in coming to Ireland was that he hoped to play for Ireland.

                      It seems to be a carrot the provinces are waving in these players faces. . . .but surely the IRFU or IRB will have to draw the line somewhere

                      It is getting out of hand imo . . . . . .and thats only the few players that come to mind now. There may well be more at Leinster and Ulster

                      Imagine if all these players were some day in the same Irish team . . . . . It would be like the Ba Ba's!!!!!!!
                      England have/had Dylan Hartley, Brad Barritt, Mouritz Botha, Manu Tuilagi, Shontayne Hape, Henry Paul.
                      He's a guy who gets up at six o'clock in the morning regardless of what time it is.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by redherring View Post
                        England have/had Dylan Hartley, Brad Barritt, Mouritz Botha, Manu Tuilagi, Shontayne Hape, Henry Paul.
                        I don't think those are the same. Are some of those players from families who moved to the UK when they were kids/ teenagers???

                        Hartley has an English Mother and moved to England when 16.

                        Tuilagi played underage rugby in England.

                        Still doesn't make it right.
                        Last edited by Corcíoch; 31st-October-2014, 13:14.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by redherring View Post
                          England have/had Dylan Hartley, Brad Barritt, Mouritz Botha, Manu Tuilagi, Shontayne Hape, Henry Paul.
                          Hartley one of his parents is English. Barritts grandparents English. Not quite the same

                          Originally posted by Corcíoch View Post
                          I don't think those are the same. Are some of those players from families who moved to the UK when they were kids/ teenagers???

                          Still doesn't make it right.
                          What isn't right about that? What is right then?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
                            Hartley one of his parents is English. Barritts grandparents English. Not quite the same

                            What isn't right about that? What is right then?
                            A National team with players from that country. It is the fundamental basic principal of International Sport. You represent your country.

                            A team with White, Ah You, Strauss, CJ, Aki, VDH . . . . .and more the way it keeps going

                            Thats not an Irish National Team.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Corcíoch View Post
                              A National team with players from that country. It is the fundamental basic principal of International Sport. You represent your country.

                              A team with White, Ah You, Strauss, CJ, Aki, VDH . . . . .and more the way it keeps going

                              Thats not an Irish National Team.
                              You were talking about players who moved during your teens. What's not right about that?

                              Comment

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