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    Originally posted by Major TNT View Post
    Very good post rhh. Agree with all of that.
    But slipping in "Henderson made serious impact in every match"?
    he didn't, his first act when he came on in Paris was completely losing his footing in a scrum.
    To my mind he isn't aggressive enough. Hopefully that will change with age and experience but to say he made serious impact is wildly off the mark IMO.
    I thought Henderson's impact off the bench against France was seriously impressive. He was, IMO, huge in defence preventing French players getting to ground quickly to recylce the ball in the dying minutes of the game. His introduction against England also gave us some much needed go forward ball alas it was too little too late really.

    Just my opinion, like arseholes, we all have one and tis fair enough you disagree.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
      What I can't let stand unchallenged is the notion that there's some quality bar in place that Zebo, O'Donnell, Jackson fell short of but that Kearney sailed over despite errors that anyone with eyes could see. It's just not true, as far as I can see.
      None of the defenders of Schmidt - and they are legion - have answered this argument and most of them will say, "Anyway - everyone will get their chance after the Six Nations is won." But will they get their chance? And if they do is it like Tommy O'D got his chance? So he can be discarded without any reason? I'd be worried that in fact there is no reason at all - apart from the coach's affections - why good players were overlooked in favour of lesser lights. If I'm right that's a fairly serious flaw in the coach which will certainly come back to bite team Ireland - (hopefully AFTER we've won the RWC). In the meantime it's a massive spur to Ulster and Munster
      Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2020.

      Comment


        Originally posted by whimpersnap View Post

        Debaty was boring in so far from the side that he wasn't even engaged with his second row. With more experience Moore would probably have figured him out, but that doesn't take away from the fact it was grossly illegal and any decent scrum ref would have put a stop to it.
        I really don't feel like getting into any provincial sh!te. He may have bored in a bit but nothing too major. The point being he had him in big trouble regardless of illegality. Now I would go out on a limb and say DF or SA would have suffered a similar fate. My question was with our next in line so far behind Ross in terms of scrummaging can we afford to pick Ross consistently until the RWC? My opinion is no as he is pushing on now and will be lasting games only 50 - 60 mins in the next 12 months or so. If he gets injured Ireland are in big trouble
        He's a guy who gets up at six o'clock in the morning regardless of what time it is.

        Comment


          Originally posted by whimpersnap View Post
          I've been compelled to defend Kearney far more than I'd like to on this forum, but to be frank the things he's being held responsible for have been bat**** at times, and this is the worst of the lot. Fair enough, he slipped against Italy, but it was a 2/3-on-1 four yards from the tryline. The only way Italy weren't scoring a try there was if they monumentally ****ed up. The France one is even more bizarre. He ran halfway across the pitch to tackle a full back who is, by definition, unmarked. It was a world class try executed perfectly - just give France their due. I'm actually stunned that a player is being derided for having the cheek to not exercise superhuman ability. There are plenty of legitimate criticisms of DK to be made - I just don't understand why people need to create insane **** to do it.


          Debaty was boring in so far from the side that he wasn't even engaged with his second row. With more experience Moore would probably have figured him out, but that doesn't take away from the fact it was grossly illegal and any decent scrum ref would have put a stop to it.
          I wasn't talking about that Italian try. I was talking about the one where Rob missed his tackle and Dave succeeded in giving the winger his inside by over-running his tracking line.

          Watch the French try again. At the point where Rob goes up to challenge the kicker, there are two or three players inside those competing for the ball and outside DK. He responds too slowly to the threat, staying on the "last man" despite the kick having changed the shape of the attack.

          He was caught for pace and position, and there were three french players who'd have beaten him to a ball that always had a chance of coming loose given that there were two men competing in mid air for it.

          It's not insane ****, and your increasingly ferocious assertions won't make it so. They are examples of the split second judgements in defence that a top class winger gets right, and that a solid club pro like Kearney gets caught on.

          We conceded 4 tries in the tournament. He should definitely have stopped one of them, should really have stopped another and should have given himself a far better chance of stopping a third. That's some going for someone who, apparently, is in the side because he can be relied on to do the fundamentals at a level above his rivals.

          As I've said elsewhere, the overall selection decisions made were vindicated. Kearney clearly offered JS enough to retain his place. But was categorically not retained on the sort of "doesn't do the flash stuff, but solid on the basics and doesn't make errors" basis that you and others have superimposed on Schmidt's selection policy.
          "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

          "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


          "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

          Comment


            Originally posted by whimpersnap View Post
            I've been compelled to defend Kearney far more than I'd like to on this forum, but to be frank the things he's being held responsible for have been bat**** at times, and this is the worst of the lot. Fair enough, he slipped against Italy, but it was a 2/3-on-1 four yards from the tryline. The only way Italy weren't scoring a try there was if they monumentally ****ed up. The France one is even more bizarre. He ran halfway across the pitch to tackle a full back who is, by definition, unmarked. It was a world class try executed perfectly - just give France their due. I'm actually stunned that a player is being derided for having the cheek to not exercise superhuman ability. There are plenty of legitimate criticisms of DK to be made - I just don't understand why people need to create insane **** to do it.


            Debaty was boring in so far from the side that he wasn't even engaged with his second row. With more experience Moore would probably have figured him out, but that doesn't take away from the fact it was grossly illegal and any decent scrum ref would have put a stop to it.

            Understatement of the year!!!


            I found some of the Anti Joe stuff very painful . . . .I found more of the 'Support the Bleen' at all costs even more painful.

            Comment


              I'm so tired of this. Tired of people making assumptions that players will be given a go now that the 6 Nations is over. It's guess work. I don't think many will get much of a chance, and that's a real shame, because it's Schmidt's loss, it's Ireland's loss. But that's my opinion, where as some people are making points like they're facts when they're just as clueless as the rest of us.
              But fck him. If Schmidt doesn't want to pick our players, then just fck him, it's his loss.

              Just tired of it all now.
              Last edited by Stringer9; 21-March-2014, 13:52.
              The Maul is Back!! LONG LIVE THE MAUL!!

              Stringer is bigger even than his own immense shadow. Pound for pound, he is the best tackler in the world. If you put him into bag of cats he\'d come out without a scratch. He was hit very late for Murphy\'s try. And when he got up, as we knew he would, the crowd cried his name as if he had just fixed the economy.Billy Keane-After Munster\'s famous loss to the AB\'s.

              The Bull-Truly irreplaceable, a mountain of a man. 100 caps!!

              Comment


                Originally posted by Stringer9 View Post
                It's guess work. I don't think many will get much of a chance
                Thats a classic in fairness

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Ron Swanson View Post
                  Thats a classic in fairness
                  Way to quote all my post.. But I think it's some of my better work in fairness. ;)
                  The Maul is Back!! LONG LIVE THE MAUL!!

                  Stringer is bigger even than his own immense shadow. Pound for pound, he is the best tackler in the world. If you put him into bag of cats he\'d come out without a scratch. He was hit very late for Murphy\'s try. And when he got up, as we knew he would, the crowd cried his name as if he had just fixed the economy.Billy Keane-After Munster\'s famous loss to the AB\'s.

                  The Bull-Truly irreplaceable, a mountain of a man. 100 caps!!

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                    All horse ****, I'm afraid. TOD clears rucks and executes the basics. Joe went with what he knows. And you gloss over the fact that Kearney made flat out defensive errors that were droppable of errors, for my money. His doubling up on the runner vs England was an U-16 error. You're creating an utterly imaginary performance matrix against which players are supposedly measured, ignoring the merits of those excluded and the errors of those retained.

                    Irish wingers faster than Kearney in the pro era: Bowe, Earls, Zebo, Trimble, Kelly, Horgan, Horgan, Fitzgerald, Hickie, Carney. Any more for any more?

                    The supposed rationale for Kearney's retention doesn't stNd up in the face of his obviously **** ups.

                    The reality is that Joe has gone with what he knows, even when it's average. Dave missed tackles, ****ed up his positioning in key phases, got chased down by a lock. Fundamentals my bollox, in short.
                    Frankly, you are the only banging on about some imaginary esoteric matrix. Player after player has come out and said that Schmidt's focus is on the fundamentals, and getting the details right. From Sean O'Brien: "It's basic stuff, but it's basics done to perfection. That's what he is aiming for, to do everything well for every minute of the game. That's where other coaches might not be onto you all of the time - about your detail and where you are meant to be and what your job is". So frankly, a big bollox to your "Fundamentals, my bollox."

                    Average Dave, limited as he is, has come in for praise from most all quarters outside this site for his performance against the ABs, and in the the 6Ns. There are arguably much better options with Bowe, Fitz and Zebo returning. For the most part, Kearney played well. He beat the first defender, always kept he ball alive, was strong in the air and on the ground defensively. He wasn't spectacular, but he played well. Few, would label his contributions as "flat out defensive errors that were droppable of errors." Your emphasis on his "doubling-up" on the runner when more glaring errors were made on the English try seems merely to be a very small hammer with which you bang on about your narrative.. namely your "Fundamentals my bollox."

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by redherring View Post
                      I really don't feel like getting into any provincial sh!te. He may have bored in a bit but nothing too major. The point being he had him in big trouble regardless of illegality. Now I would go out on a limb and say DF or SA would have suffered a similar fate. My question was with our next in line so far behind Ross in terms of scrummaging can we afford to pick Ross consistently until the RWC? My opinion is no as he is pushing on now and will be lasting games only 50 - 60 mins in the next 12 months or so. If he gets injured Ireland are in big trouble
                      Well I'm not getting into anything provincial. I'm just saying Moore has, for a good chunk of this year, looked like ousting Ross, who in turn dealt very comfortably with both French looseheads and all but humiliated Domingo. Moore's inexperience showed in how he was played by Debaty and I suspect maybe a couple of our options at other provinces would be a bit more wily.

                      Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                      I wasn't talking about that Italian try. I was talking about the one where Rob missed his tackle and Dave succeeded in giving the winger his inside by over-running his tracking line.
                      They only scored one try?

                      Watch the French try again. At the point where Rob goes up to challenge the kicker, there are two or three players inside those competing for the ball and outside DK. He responds too slowly to the threat, staying on the "last man" despite the kick having changed the shape of the attack.

                      He was caught for pace and position, and there were three french players who'd have beaten him to a ball that always had a chance of coming loose given that there were two men competing in mid air for it.
                      We'll just have to disagree, I'm not sure what other position you'd expect him to take up.

                      As I've said elsewhere, the overall selection decisions made were vindicated. Kearney clearly offered JS enough to retain his place. But was categorically not retained on the sort of "doesn't do the flash stuff, but solid on the basics and doesn't make errors" basis that you and others have superimposed on Schmidt's selection policy.
                      I didn't say he doesn't make errors. I think he's a very solid player who knows his role within the team and has certain attributes that aren't fashionable but are nevertheless important for the team. Ex-pros like Quinlan and Jackman have gone out of their way to say how impressed they've been by him. I'd have Earls ahead of him in a heartbeat and Fitzgerald too, but I can see that he does his job well.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Ratbastard View Post
                        Frankly, you are the only banging on about some imaginary esoteric matrix.
                        Tis but a scratch.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                          Jackson did nothing to get dropped in favour of Madigan. TOD did nothing to get dropped in favour of Murphy. It's a disservice to those players to insist that they were the victims of Schmidt's exacting demands and didn't come up to his mark, which is the notion being pushed by those seeking to create an over-elaborate rationale for some of those calls.
                          Strawman arguments. Schmidt simply wanted more utility on the bench, period. Madigan got the nod not because he is a better 10 (Schmidt said Jackson would start if Sexton were unavailable), but because Madigan also covers 12, 15. Jordi Murphy has played all 3 back-row positions as a pro.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Stringer9 View Post
                            I'm so tired of this. Tired of people making assumptions that players will be given a go now that the 6 Nations is over. It's guess work. I don't think many will get much of a chance, and that's a real shame, because it's Schmidt's loss, it's Ireland's loss. But that's my opinion, where as some people are making points like they're facts when they're just as clueless as the rest of us.
                            But fck him. If Schmidt doesn't want to pick our players, then just fck him, it's his loss.

                            Just tired of it all now.
                            I think your dislike of Schmidt has been evident in your posts from early days.

                            Comment


                              Henderson covered 6, so only positions 7 and 8 were in question. Murphy doesn't cover 7, as he showed in the Castres match, and O'Donnell doesn't cover 8. O'Mahony and Henry cover all the positions. How much versatility did he need?

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Ratbastard View Post
                                Strawman arguments. Schmidt simply wanted more utility on the bench, period. Madigan got the nod not because he is a better 10 (Schmidt said Jackson would start if Sexton were unavailable), but because Madigan also covers 12, 15. Jordi Murphy has played all 3 back-row positions as a pro.
                                As has TOD. He was back & forth on either flank for a fair while (as was POM) before finally settling into 7, but he has played a lot at 6 and I'm pretty sure he had a couple of games at 8 too.
                                Tis but a scratch.

                                Comment

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