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Expectations for 6N

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  • sewa
    started a topic Expectations for 6N

    Expectations for 6N

    So how many wins are we expecting, also what is acceptable?

    Personally win three from five (all home games) would be reasonable benchmark

  • Daithi
    replied
    Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
    Can't agree BB, we lost the grand slam by a penalty all told. The margins in this competition are incredible.
    Eh sorry Cowboy but we actually lost out on the grand slam by more than 1 penalty all told, we were beaten by 3 points by England, so Ireland needed to score more than a penalty to beat them and win a grand slam. Also in an intense 13-10 test as tight as the England v Ireland match was, trying to score an extra 3+ points more than you did is like saying you only needed to increase your performance by 30%!!

    P.s. try running that by the civil service and they'll tell you exactly how hard it is to achieve :-)
    Last edited by Daithi; 10th-April-2014, 18:38.

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  • fullback15
    replied
    http://www.irishrugby.ie/ireland/31466.php

    statistical analysis of the 6N. The number of tries scored are up for the first time in a few years. Scrums are apparently much messier in games involving Wales.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
    Can't agree BB, we lost the grand slam by a penalty all told. The margins in this competition are incredible.

    They always have been and always will be . . .despite rubbish like we saw from Italy and Scotland today it remains a very tight comp at the end always.

    EOS's tenure is the primary example. He won a few triple crowns, we beat Italy a few of those years too if not all . . .So essentially it was France that cost the EOS era a few grandslams.

    Incredibly tight margins.

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  • Cowboy
    replied
    Can't agree BB, we lost the grand slam by a penalty all told. The margins in this competition are incredible.

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  • Boo-boo
    replied
    Great championship win but still believe we missed out on the grand slam. POM was key to missing that one and spark in the backline was missing. sorry, it wan't missing....it wasn't picked. Very glad to see Sexton at the end.
    good look BoD...you'll need it as ROG has all the jobs!

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  • sewa
    replied
    I thought the Ireland England game was a poor match, Ireland had no ideas in attack and England fluffled their lines on what should have been an easy win

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  • Red Hand Hero
    replied
    Originally posted by dropkick View Post
    Simple way around that is to reward at least three points (its possible to get 2 bonus points in defeat) for the grand slam. So the grand slam winners get 20pts + 3pts bonus while the second place team have 22pts.


    The biggest advantage for bonus points is it encourages teams to attack more and can make things interesting.
    I would question the assertion that attack equals interesting. The England/Ireland game was enthralling, personally, but was very low scoring.

    I wouldn't be against BP's but not convinced it would balance things up any better. It's a bit like the criticism of the HEC being 6 pools rather than 4/8 but the drama that plays out over the last two weekends as teams vie to secure qualification is brilliant IMO.

    England have a big target on our backs for the opening kick-off which they may or may not surpass whilst we and the French will also know what is required of us come KO to secure a possible championship.

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  • dropkick
    replied
    Originally posted by theghost View Post
    Not sure about bonus points being introduced , it's unlikely but a strong team could win 4 games with bonus points in each ,lose 1 game and finish on 20 points and win the championship on tries scored from a team winning all 5 games without a Bp ie winning the grand slam finishing on 20 points and coming second .
    Unlikely but possible

    Simple way around that is to reward at least three points (its possible to get 2 bonus points in defeat) for the grand slam. So the grand slam winners get 20pts + 3pts bonus while the second place team have 22pts.


    The biggest advantage for bonus points is it encourages teams to attack more and can make things interesting.

    Leave a comment:


  • mr chips
    replied
    Originally posted by Bosco View Post
    The biggest problem with the 6N is the lack of relegation. Allowing teams like England concentrate on the World Cup
    BOOM! Headshot!

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  • Bosco
    replied
    The biggest problem with the 6N is the lack of relegation. Allowing teams like England concentrate on the World Cup

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  • Bash
    replied
    Originally posted by Yatenga View Post
    A team with fewer wins winning the 6Ns outright is possible, highly unlikely, and easily regulated against in the unlikely event of it occuring (i.e. BPs as a tiebreaker only)
    Points diff is a very poor way of deciding a championship, and I think Ireland have suffered more than most, since we tend to not produce high scoring teams (at least compared to the French)
    I'd like to see BPs for all the reasons why it has improved other competitions - more competitive games, give losing teams (and winning teams) an incentive to keep playing, fairer than points diff
    The fact that 6N isnt a home/away competition can be argued as making the entire competition inherently unfair; seems a little specious to use that as an argument against BPs.
    BP dont make it any way fairer! the advantage of scoring more trys to gain an advantage with BP is gained in much the same way as using a PD system to determine the winner of the 6nations table! in fact one could argue its more fair as say you score the presumeably 4 try bonus points then you have a bonus point but what if you score 6 or 7 trys and 5 pens to boot so a team that beats italy by 20 scoring 4 trys gets the same points (5) as a team that scores 6 trys and beats italy by +50?

    I prefer the fairness of the highest points scoring teams (better)overall!

    BPs may incentivise scoring the 4 trys but may not be fairer in the long run either.. plus Its ridiculous to state Ireland have een harddone by over the years because of not haveing a BP system because by the same rules we would be just as harshly treated under a BP system.

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  • Yatenga
    replied
    A team with fewer wins winning the 6Ns outright is possible, highly unlikely, and easily regulated against in the unlikely event of it occuring (i.e. BPs as a tiebreaker only)
    Points diff is a very poor way of deciding a championship, and I think Ireland have suffered more than most, since we tend to not produce high scoring teams (at least compared to the French)
    I'd like to see BPs for all the reasons why it has improved other competitions - more competitive games, give losing teams (and winning teams) an incentive to keep playing, fairer than points diff
    The fact that 6N isnt a home/away competition can be argued as making the entire competition inherently unfair; seems a little specious to use that as an argument against BPs.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bash
    replied
    Dont think the format of the comp is an issue tbh, more a quality of team/coaching kinda issue.

    Wales are suffering abit over the Lions id say, Scotland and France are woeful but with two new coaches would make it a strong competition again. Ireland, England and Italy are competitive.

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  • theghost
    replied
    Not sure about bonus points being introduced , it's unlikely but a strong team could win 4 games with bonus points in each ,lose 1 game and finish on 20 points and win the championship on tries scored from a team winning all 5 games without a Bp ie winning the grand slam finishing on 20 points and coming second .
    Unlikely but possible

    Leave a comment:

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