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  • whimpersnap
    replied
    Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post
    Maybe it'll be the other way round ie you don't make it at centre, because of hands, or speed, or agility, then you have a go at back row.

    Course if you fail there you can always be a hooker :)
    With the proliferation of massive centres, you might begin to see more guys shift to the back row in future.

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  • fitzy73
    replied
    Originally posted by whimpersnap View Post
    Jordan Coughlan. Was Joe's plan to make him into a 12 (he's been talking about in future all centres will be massive for a few years now) but he hasn't made any progression under Matt O'Connor. There's Harrison Brewer who's made a similar conversion at Terenure College and will get at least a sub-academy spot next year. Richie Vernon at Glasgow seems to have made the conversion very quickly, but I think in general if you have the skills to play centre then you'll be identified at academy level. Vernon's success is probably more to do with the fact nobody ever noticed he was a centre playing on the flank.
    Maybe it'll be the other way round ie you don't make it at centre, because of hands, or speed, or agility, then you have a go at back row.

    Course if you fail there you can always be a hooker :)

    Leave a comment:


  • whimpersnap
    replied
    Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post
    The back row query was a genuine question to try an stimulate discussion. For me balance is the key in the centre and the BOD D'arcy partnership is unusual in that they are both quite similar players. But BOD also worked well with Maggs and Henderson. Isn't there a lad up at Leinster who they are tying to convert from back row to centre, is that stupid as well?
    Jordan Coughlan. Was Joe's plan to make him into a 12 (he's been talking about in future all centres will be massive for a few years now) but he hasn't made any progression under Matt O'Connor. There's Harrison Brewer who's made a similar conversion at Terenure College and will get at least a sub-academy spot next year. Richie Vernon at Glasgow seems to have made the conversion very quickly, but I think in general if you have the skills to play centre then you'll be identified at academy level. Vernon's success is probably more to do with the fact nobody ever noticed he was a centre playing on the flank.

    Leave a comment:


  • Balla Boy
    replied
    Originally posted by redherring View Post
    I think if a back row possesses the skill set and pace of a centre at a young age the chances are he'd be converted. POM, TOD, SOB and Ferris have good pace as BR's but to me lack the agility of a natural back.
    Agility is a good word. It's the change of direction, the step etc that allows you to hit a space rather than flat out pace, which a lot of good centres don't have huge amounts of.

    I'd agree too that if there were a 6'3 15 stone guy who could play there, he'd be played there first. We produce so few.

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  • redherring
    replied
    I think if a back row possesses the skill set and pace of a centre at a young age the chances are he'd be converted. POM, TOD, SOB and Ferris have good pace as BR's but to me lack the agility of a natural back.

    Leave a comment:


  • Balla Boy
    replied
    Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post
    The back row query was a genuine question to try an stimulate discussion. For me balance is the key in the centre and the BOD D'arcy partnership is unusual in that they are both quite similar players. But BOD also worked well with Maggs and Henderson. Isn't there a lad up at Leinster who they are tying to convert from back row to centre, is that stupid as well?
    You need quite a specific skill set as a centre though. As a pro level 12, you should be able to throw a miss one off either hand and be guaranteed to stand up any front five forward and do them given a bit of space in a one on one.

    Not all back rows would have the hands or the feet for the job. Most of them are carrying size that isn't really needed at 12, and sacrificing acceleration as a result. A twelve needs a really strong burst over 10-15 that a lot of back rows would lack.

    You also need a different type of game intelligence as well i think. The ability to see and shape space, and put other people into it (or use it yourself). Rapid decision making in a role where contact and a good recycle goes from being a solid option for a forward to a potentially lost opportunity for a back.

    But it's the hands more than anything I think. There's no margin for error in front of top level defences any more.

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  • the plastic paddy
    replied
    The back row query was a genuine question to try an stimulate discussion. For me balance is the key in the centre and the BOD D'arcy partnership is unusual in that they are both quite similar players. But BOD also worked well with Maggs and Henderson. Isn't there a lad up at Leinster who they are tying to convert from back row to centre, is that stupid as well?

    Leave a comment:


  • Red Hand Hero
    replied
    Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post
    Should Ireland be looking to convert one of the many 6/8s? Talk on the Munster centre thread of Stander, know he is a project player but what about Young Buckley who is coming through?
    I think we don't necessarily need to push players out into the backs on the basis that they 'could' be the next Roberts, Bastareau etc. There is a skill level to playing in the centre that young Irish forwards, even talented ones that will make U-18's/U-20's will not necessarily possess. Remember Roberts started off life as an 85kg winger/fullback, he wasn't always a monster.

    I would also remind people that Fofana isn't a particularly 'huge' player but he hits and carries well above his weight might suggest. D'Arcy for being a relatively small man also makes signficant yardage in contact well though not the explosive kind you see from Roberts for example. The example of a plough-horse is not inaccurate either for whilst it is not necessarily the bash over someone putting them on their arse that punters love the consistency with which D'Arcy has done it for ten years leaves the likes of Roberts and Bastareau in the shade IMO.

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  • HenryFitz
    replied
    Originally posted by Bayern View Post
    stop with the stupidity.
    Pathetic.

    Leave a comment:


  • james_a
    replied
    In case anyone is unsure what number he wears :D

    Ireland vs South Africa 2010

    Click image for larger version

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  • mr chips
    replied
    Originally posted by Bayern View Post
    stop with the stupidity.
    Stop with the needless abuse of other forum users.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bayern
    replied
    Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post
    Should Ireland be looking to convert one of the many 6/8s? Talk on the Munster centre thread of Stander, know he is a project player but what about Young Buckley who is coming through?
    stop with the stupidity.

    Leave a comment:


  • the plastic paddy
    replied
    Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post
    Agreed. I think it is a bit of a shame though when you are using pseudo flankers as battering rams in the centre.

    Oh for a bit of genius, a sidestep and a bit of speed up the middle ...
    Should Ireland be looking to convert one of the many 6/8s? Talk on the Munster centre thread of Stander, know he is a project player but what about Young Buckley who is coming through?

    Leave a comment:


  • fitzy73
    replied
    Originally posted by tickettout
    Jamie Roberts gave an exhibition of getting front foot ball in a poor Wales side this championship.
    Darcy, while playing well, was well below his level.

    The centre is a place for monsters these days.
    The next partnership could potentially be looking at having to defend against Bastareaud, Tuilagi, Roberts, Burrell & Davies etc. Guys ranging between 16-18 stone

    The metres we gave up in the centre channel against the raw power of Basta on Saturday was frightening.
    Agreed. I think it is a bit of a shame though when you are using pseudo flankers as battering rams in the centre.

    Oh for a bit of genius, a sidestep and a bit of speed up the middle ...

    Leave a comment:


  • Balla Boy
    replied
    Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post
    I think he had a great six nations. He is hugely important defensively; most teams got no joy attacking the 10/12 channel.

    Therein lies the crux for me though. Are we completely going away from the notion of centres as offensive players? It is a given that they need a solid defense but what about scoring the odd try ... Hell even making the odd line break?

    I think when you look at the breaks that Fofana or even Marshall make in that channel it questions the assumption we've held for years that it's about massive carriers in heavy traffic. There clearly is space there, even if it's on second or third phase.

    D'Arcy was, as he's often been, the best 12 in the tournament. It's just that occasionally you see a flash of those feet and a bit of a break and you wonder what might have been if we hadn't yoked him to a plough for the last ten years.

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