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Negativity or Realism: Going back to what we do best?

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    Negativity or Realism: Going back to what we do best?

    My favourite bit in 'Alone it Stands' is when a supporter is reflecting on the widely held Irish view that Irish rugby defeat is inevitable - just as Irish military defeat always seemed inevitable in History lessons but only after the initial blast of ill-placed optimism.

    And perhaps the remarks by Liam Toland reflect us moving back to that way of thinking when he states that "Australia, similar to New Zealand, have many startling players such as Folau but their “average” players are far superior to our legends."

    It is a very interesting analysis (as usual) and perhaps he is just telling it as it really is - and although the quote above is a bit over the top - I have to admit when watching the game on Saturday it was very close to my own view.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugb...1597966?page=1
    ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

    Originally Posted by mr chips
    AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

    #2
    a couple of other quotes that say a lot

    Up here in Six Nations land, a relieving kick to touch from your outhalf is applauded by the crowd; not so in Sydney.

    This gulf is often mistaken for magic ability but it is their ability to execute the basics at full flight that impresses

    Comment


      #3
      A relieving kick to touch is better than kicking it straight to a rampaging back three
      My computer thinks I'm gay
      What's the difference anyway
      When all the people do all day
      Is stare into a phone

      Comment


        #4
        I wouldn't be so despondent. Leinster just happen to be going through a period of decline as Schmidt takes over at ireland., He tries to base his Ireland team of that Leinster side because he probably thought it'd be easier to get his ideas across.

        Well whaddaya know. It turns out this international lark is trickier than he thought.

        but he has a chance to get it right at the Six Nations with something like this:

        Henshaw
        Earls
        Payne
        Marshall
        Bowe

        Murray & Sexton

        Healy, Cronin, Archer
        Ryan, O'Connell
        Henderson, O'Donnell, O'Mahony

        McGrath, Sherry, Ross, O'Brien, Henry, Marmion, Jackson, Zebo,

        And while Deccie would've been lynched from an Abbey St lamp post for that selection Schmidt would actually get away with it.
        Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2019.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by rathbaner View Post
          I wouldn't be so despondent. Leinster just happen to be going through a period of decline as Schmidt takes over at ireland., He tries to base his Ireland team of that Leinster side because he probably thought it'd be easier to get his ideas across.

          Well whaddaya know. It turns out this international lark is trickier than he thought.

          but he has a chance to get it right at the Six Nations with something like this:

          Henshaw
          Earls
          Payne
          Marshall
          Bowe

          Murray & Sexton

          Healy, Cronin, Archer
          Ryan, O'Connell
          Henderson, O'Donnell, O'Mahony

          McGrath, Sherry, Ross, O'Brien, Henry, Marmion, Jackson, Zebo,

          And while Deccie would've been lynched from an Abbey St lamp post for that selection Schmidt would actually get away with it.
          Its clear enough Joe dioesn't rate eitehr Kilcoyne or Marmion . He isn't going to blood them in the 6 Nations barring an injury crisis. So we can rule those two out of the 22.

          Henderson isn't a backrow forward in my view. He was a world class u20 lock and now we're trying to play him in another position. If there is logic there please let me know........

          Sean Cronin cannot hit a cows arse with a banjo at lineout time. While Best ain't dead eye dick either he's still a beter option.

          I'd like to see O Donnell get a run my suspicion is now he won't becasue he didn't play in the AI. Ryan will be back and thats a plus.

          I'd switch O Brien to 6. Bring Henry in at 7 and move O Mahony to 8.

          I like the look of that backline but my reservations are that our current problems aren't in the backs. They are in the forwards.
          I always knew Madigan was a closet Scrum Half. Ignore All things that suggest Continuity.

          Comment


            #6
            Sorry but is Payne not qualified until next summer?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post
              Sorry but is Payne not qualified until next summer?
              I don't know, but whther it's Payne, Earls, Cave, Luke Fitz, McFadden, Bowe or someone else isn't the point.

              The point I was making was that Schmidt picked a load of Leinster players - for the same reason Gatland picked all Ospreys players that time - but Leinster are in decline at the moment so it was a neat idea but lousy timing.

              Hopefully Schmidt will learn the lesson.
              If he does I don't think we have to be so despondent after the Oz defeat. We have plenty of decent international standard players. Have we got 23 of them? I think we do - if we get a bit luckier than we have been since the last RWC with injuries.
              Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2019.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by sewa View Post
                A relieving kick to touch is better than kicking it straight to a rampaging back three
                Break the game up. Don't draw their back 3 into the game and compliment their continuity game, make Australia play the game they hate, slow stodgy set piece rugby.


                Make touch if you're going for touch. Aimless kicking deserves directed bollockings.
                I am the million man.

                Comment


                  #9
                  England & Wales to an extent are living with same handicaps as ourselves yet they are looking much better. They are infinitely better coached then our lot - playing a simple style that suits the players they have.

                  This is not Schmidt's fault. He's 2 games in and is left with the core of a team which lost 60-0 and was beaten by both italy and Scotland in the last 18months. However I think he'll have to be much more radical in selection than he has been, accept that results will be bad while he removes the deadwood and then hope the younger players come good with the exposure. There is no guarantee other than to say that staying with the current group of players will end in dismal failure. It needs a Gatland style clearout.
                  Last edited by Mcork; 18th-November-2013, 20:35.
                  Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again (like picking Gordon D'Arcy) and expecting different results.
                  Albert Einstein

                  Comment


                    #10
                    The Gatland style clearout worked great against a fairly woeful Scottish team. It's the same fixture first up in the Aviva in February. If Schmidt is going to do it, that's the game to do it in. They will at least have a chance of victory.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Mcork View Post
                      England & Wales to an extent are living with same handicaps as ourselves yet they are looking much better. They are infinitely better coached then our lot - playing a simple style that suits the players they have.

                      This is not Schmidt's fault. He's 2 games in and is left with the core of a team which lost 60-0 and was beaten by both italy and Scotland in the last 18months. However I think he'll have to be much more radical in selection than he has been, accept that results will be bad while he removes the deadwood and then hope the younger players come good with the exposure. There is no guarantee other than to say that staying with the current group of players will end in dismal failure. It needs a Gatland style clearout.
                      Lot easier to do when you've a few George North's hanging around.
                      I always knew Madigan was a closet Scrum Half. Ignore All things that suggest Continuity.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        And perhaps the remarks by Liam Toland reflect us moving back to that way of thinking when he states that "Australia, similar to New Zealand, have many startling players such as Folau but their “average” players are far superior to our legends."

                        Thats nonsense. Its worth pointing out that Australias players had all the time in the world when they had the ball. There was no pressure on them. Compare that with the time the Irish players had on the ball. Theres no doubt the Australians have better skills but they're not that far ahead. There is a massive difference in the strength of both defenses though.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by The Outlaw View Post
                          Lot easier to do when you've a few George North's hanging around.
                          Well they've only one. We've Zebo, the likes of Gilroy etc. The players are there the difference is in Wales they get far more exposure earlier to INTL standard and therefore improve at a much faster rate.
                          Last edited by Mcork; 19th-November-2013, 06:31.
                          Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again (like picking Gordon D'Arcy) and expecting different results.
                          Albert Einstein

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Mcork View Post
                            Well they've only one. We've Zebo, the likes of Gilroy etc. The players are there the difference is in Wales they get far more exposure earlier to INTL standard and therefore improve at a much faster rate.
                            Zebo and Gilroy aren't in the same class bracket as North or Halfpenny IMO.

                            I would put Luke Marshall well ahead of both Irish lads he has that star quality

                            To be honest I'd take a few Aly Wyn Jones's, Adam Jones's or Dan Lydiate's at the moment..
                            I always knew Madigan was a closet Scrum Half. Ignore All things that suggest Continuity.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              North is absolute star quality as is Cuthbert and 1/2p is one of the worlds best players, they also seem to have found a treasure trove of centres to rival NZ.
                              My computer thinks I'm gay
                              What's the difference anyway
                              When all the people do all day
                              Is stare into a phone

                              Comment

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