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Scotland v Ireland Positives and Negatives

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    Scotland v Ireland Positives and Negatives

    Rather than get into lengthy diatribes why not post a few short points on your main positives & negatives from the match?

    Marshall made an excellent debut - not perfect but we have an option that 12 that isn't D'Arcy
    Gilroy solid and took the try well
    Kilcoyne settled in well enough for his cameo



    -

    Discipline - SOB penalty near the end was abysmal
    Leadership - what leadership?
    RK - running into contact and M Ross - should know better
    ROG - the end? You would think so after that...
    Goal kicking from Jackson - though not a surprise as he has not been comfortable there for a while

    #2
    Positives are what is known now.
    Ireland have 2 6 nation games a summer tour and the AIs to overhaul the whole set up for next years 6 nations.
    ROG
    ROSS
    DARCY
    DOC
    Reddan
    BOD could be dropped now.
    Other options at 8 could be tried.
    Archer or Fitzpartrick could be given a real chance and a set amount of games to prove themselves.
    That would be a start.
    clowns

    Comment


      #3
      +
      Marshall
      It's finished

      -
      Heaslip
      SOB
      ROG
      Kearney
      Lack of leadership (those mentioned plus BOD, DOC, Best)
      Lack of direction. So much possession, so much territory, so many attackers (earls, gilroy, kearney, bod, marshall, sob) but so little try threat.
      Discipline - not from young fellas but the likes of SOB, Heaslip, DOC. Stupid, stupid infringements.

      Comment


        #4
        Only positive is hopefully not too many lads getting injured for the Lions. And I lost my cool calling a fat c'nt a fat c'nt in the pub but at least I didn't smack him much as he would have deserved it.

        Comment


          #5
          Positives
          Marshall
          What Jackson brought out of the backs

          Negatives
          Players going past their best
          Greedy players
          over rated golden generation
          coach being blamed for players inability to perform
          \"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"

          Comment


            #6
            +
            linebreaks

            -
            - collective attitude failure. lack of belief. -
            Earls would have scored that 3 years ago.

            - irish back row. anonymous.

            Comment


              #7
              Negatives

              Heaslip's captaincy - The first penalty would have suited Jackson, but Heaslip went for the lineout. Could have made a difference to the young man's confidence.

              Scrum
              - I thought we were supposed to muller them in the scrum? If court isn't performing in the scrum then he shouldn't be on, simple as. He brings nothing else to the table.

              Earls
              - Is he stupid, or just utterly selfish?I cant make my mind up. Either way, it should have been him getting subbed and not Gilroy.

              Inability of forwards to muscle a try with all the time we spent in the red zone

              Wayne Barnes
              - Im sorry to be whining about the ref, but how many infringements did Scotland have to make while we were in the red zone without them even receiving so much as a warning? He then pinged Best for not letting go in the tackle even though he didnt make the tackle and DOC for coming in at the side when he definitely didnt. It was as if he was trying to even up the penalty count. Im sure he was probably awful for the Scots also

              Sad demise of ROG - It shouldnt have been let go on this long, but it cant go on any longer. Sad way to go out, but he should have bowed out gracefully a long time ago.

              Best
              - Awful day at the office. We can not afford the inconsistency


              Positives


              Marshall - 7/10 i would give him which is good for his debut. He faded out a bit but definitely shows he has what it takes. He's a seriously strong lad and will only get better.

              Jackson
              - Apart from the obvious kicking troubles I thought he had a good game. The panel on RTE are a disgrace. It was as if they wanted him to have a bad game. Hook going on one of his rancid rants at half time about how he created nothing and was just shovelling the ball across. Putting the blame on him for us not scoring any tries in the first half was ****ing laughable. If Earls had made the pass to BOD, and Marshall had made the pass to Gilroy then there is two certain tries. Not to mention the amount of unforgivable ****ups in the lineout by Best in Scotland's 22, which could easily have resulted in tries. Then there was a few other near misses from Earls etc. We should have scored at least 3 tries in the first half, the fact we didnt has nothing to do with Jackson! Jackson also made a turnover and defended incredibly well. The men on that panel need to take a long hard look at themselves.

              Comment


                #8
                seem to have death down on earls.
                He looks to me to be one of two irish players that can make a
                line break. The idea that he is supposed to know bod is trailing 10 m behind him is
                harsh.
                marshall also threw a howler of a pass to butcher a try.

                You have some new guys, some old guys playing together for the
                first time. I think you're being harsh.

                As for jackson, hooks criticism may have been unwarranted,
                but neither was the praise I saw lavished on his talents
                here last week. clearly nothing to separate him from keatley et al

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by mtcmolloy View Post
                  seem to have death down on earls.
                  He looks to me to be one of two irish players that can make a
                  line break. The idea that he is supposed to know bod is trailing 10 m behind him is
                  harsh.
                  marshall also threw a howler of a pass to butcher a try.

                  You have some new guys, some old guys playing together for the
                  first time. I think you're being harsh.

                  As for jackson, hooks criticism may have been unwarranted,
                  but neither was the praise I saw lavished on his talents
                  here last week. clearly nothing to separate him from keatley et al
                  If Earls didnt know BOD was there then he shouldn't be playing rugby. But he knew he was there, so its irrelevant. Jackson is 21 years old, was parachuted into a 6 Nations Test match and asked to run the game, call the plays and take the kicks. I dont think im the one being harsh when you compare how scathing Hook etc were about him when you consider he had a good game apart from the kicking.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Is Strauss injured still? I presume he is. Rory Best had a shocker - it's not his first but I thought those days were behind him. A senior player failing to fulfil the basics of his position - how often do we have this in Irish rugby?. An honest player who always gives his all but that was unacceptable and killed us at crucial junctures in the 1st half. Mike Sherry needs to be fasttracked - we simply can't have a hooker who is not solid in the art of throwing no matter how good he is in other facets.
                    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again (like picking Gordon D'Arcy) and expecting different results.
                    Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Have only (just..) seen the clips played on the 9oc news; some "senior" players deserve a kicking after that (or what I've seen...). At least Marshall and Gilroy let the backs (& we have good ones...) breathe.

                      Probably a game we should have won, but hey, at least we're starting to see some (much needed...) change. But 6N season ended and with it the scramble for Lions places (that might be a blessing....).

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Kicking apart, Jackson did ok, should have been left to decide what to kick himself. Marshall did ok too, save for not hanging onto the ball a little longer after being bundled into touch and not diving on the ball after ROG's brainfart.

                        ROG's brainfart... WTF was he doing? Had the whole line run on too far to make a pass?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          First time I got the urge to post on here - I suppose that sort of game has that impact on people. So I will just lay out a few things I thought about it.

                          Having kicked seriously for over 12 years for a number of teams, I can tell you one thing which the commentators are getting completely wrong. Telling a new or struggling kicker that you are going for the corner with a kickable penalty will not "take pressure off him" - it will tell him that you would prefer to take the high risk involved in trying to score a try as you think him kicking is a high risk anyway. This could not have settled Jackson's nerves at the start of the game. If you kick it and miss, this is just something that happens and you will need to move on - it's what kickers do. If you are not given the kick to take, it means that by the time you do take a kick, this negative mindset will have time to afflict you. All Jackson's misses faded away, one was even very poorly struck. This suggests to me that he was snatching at them, which happens when you force your kick as you plant a little too early, swing too fast and end up coming across the ball. Jackson hasn't been kicking well in fairness and he must in the end shoulder the blame, but this tactic of kicking for the corner early must be seen as contributing and falls on the head of either Kidney or Heaslip (which also means on Kidney eventually).

                          Apart from that, I think Jackson showed major potential. Since watching him at under 20 he has been fallible as a place kicker but that can be improved upon - it's a closed skill and we should be patient here - Sexton went through his issues with kicking before now and ROG hasn't been dead eyed with them lately either. His defence is far superior to ROG's - he was the one that set the choke tackle the commentators were giving Marshall praise for. His range of passing was fantastic - he delivers the delayed pop very well. This works particularly as defenders have to honour his threat as a ball carrier, he is tough to bring down and recycles the ball well - unlike ROG. He kicked out of hand minimally, which was obviously the game plan, so can't rate him there.

                          Marshall looked fantastic. His two breaks were not converted due to poor passing on his behalf, one was too looped, the second too flat. However, the draw part of the second was excellent, had the pass gone to hand it was a stroll in. And with the first he could have used O'Driscoll but I would argue the cut out pass was the right option if delivered properly. I am a huge believer that it is better to do the right thing and execute poorly than to do the wrong thing well. Compare Earls' break to these. He never even tried to draw Hogg, never looked at BOD and when he did try to take the outside he never fully backed himself. Or when O'Brien broke the line, he simply fell over having never looked for support. Marshall's defence again was strong and overall he looked a real prospect.

                          Elsewhere in the backs, Murray looks like a very good but never top class scrum half - he doesn't have the acceleration to really trouble fringe defenders very often ala Youngs or Genia. Kearney is rounding back into form in some ways (he makes a lot of ground in contact at times) but at others looked indecisive. BOD is still the most instinctive player I have seen, I will get back to him later. Gilroy did well in general and, unless I missed an injury, I don't know why he was subbed. Earls was ok though I never quite trust him under a high ball.

                          For all those clamouring so hard for Court - I think he was shown to still be extremely limited today. Best did himself no favours with some very wobbly throwing. I understand the Scottish lineout is huge - this does not cause throws to float a yard to the Scottish side as one of his throws to the tail did. This is a pity as around the pitch he is playing as well as I've seen and is a real threat. Ross was basically Ross - nothing spectacular but very dependable.

                          I think we have a problem in the second row in that our three first choice locks are, to me, all 4s - hard, abrasive players but without that athletic and rangy Richie Gray/Paul O'Connell type 5 lock. As the youth movement continues, perhaps we need to see what Henderson can do in this slot.

                          The back row, to me, were quite poor. Given constant go forward ball they did not outshine the Scots back row. O'Brien has regressed and Ireland are using him as a one trick pony to take up one out ball. Why are we not using him more off the outhalf's shoulder? This would allow him to dictate contact more and would also set up the dummy lines that Leinster and Ulster use so effectively. The usage of O'Brien (and O'Mahony for that matter) as ball carriers is insipid and a waste of a hugely valuable resource. Apart from that, I thought two of the penalties O'Brien gave away - his offside in our 22 and his hands in the ruck toward the end - were absolutely unforgivable. However, when you try to make a 7 out of a player who should be at 8 or 6, this can happen.

                          O'Mahony soldiers away but it seems often as if he is left out of the game plan. Heaslip had a decent ball carrying performance but compare him to himself of old or Ben Morgan or Faletau and he no longer seems a top player.

                          Which brings me to a major point - he is not a captain. The last three big Irish captains - BOD, POC and Keith Wood; all players who could take over a game, all players who were first choices unarguably when fit, all players who led by both word and example, all Lions. Would Heaslip get in the Lions team today, much less captain it? No! I wouldn't even pick him for the Lions squad. Then, he helps to undermine Jackson with the choices I described earlier. On top of that, with over three minutes left and a penalty in front of the posts - slot it over and you are one behind and you will get the ball back! You saw BOD get the ball and immediately look to run it, when it wasn't on he looked towards the posts but Heaslip chose otherwise. I will never fathom this decision nor will I understand how Kidney has dispossessed BOD from this job for someone who does not merit it.

                          Other continuing issues from the last game - an inability to take advantage of a yellow card and possession in good territory being the most glaring. We have shown some huge potential to cut apart opposing teams. Multiple line breaks today and against England. Yet when we go up a man, we start to maul the ball? We play territory? Pure craziness! We have shown a consistent ability to get outside defences and yet, when they are down one we play narrow? I don't understand it!

                          Our use of the bench was craziness. ROG is done, I say that as a huge fan of his. Last time out against England he looked shell shocked and his brain fart only reinforced this. He cannot control a game through the boot anymore - always his primary strength. I think we should look at the extra distance we got to touch from Jackson's penalties to reaffirm this. When quarterbacks in American Football get old, sometimes they get what is called noodle arm, where their arm loses strength. O'Gara has developed noodle leg! Not only was his brain fart awful, but when BOD saved his skin, he then proceeded to fail to find touch even though his kick barely cleared the 22.

                          Then Kidney brings on Fitzgerald. I have never been his biggest fan but since his raft of injuries I feel badly for him. He was not ready for today. He pounced on the cross field like a man only can when his career has been slipping away and he needs to force everything. Then he falls off a simple tackle of Duncan Weir from a kick chase. He reminds me of Thomas O'Leary post injury - just trying that bit too hard. He should have been given time with Leinster, he still has classy ability but his head isn't there in my view.

                          Which would have allowed McFadden on the bench. Say what you will about him but had we brought him on, we could have kept the far more competent Jackson instead of O'Gara and allowed McFadden take the kicking duties. In this case I think we may have been lauding all concerned for a great win under strange circumstances.

                          In conclusion, I would like to say that I do not think Irish rugby is broken. ONE of our starting backline was over 26. We certainly have issues in the future with replacing Ross, sorting out our second row and deciding on our best backrow combination but the talent is there in the backrow at least and I think with Henderson and Ryan we can forge a strong second row. I have long had huge respect for Kidney and credit him with a lot of Munster's success. However, I feel he has been constantly out thought by opposition coaches in the last few years. Our lineout, once a major strength, has become a shambles. Our on pitch leadership has fallen apart and our selection is baffling at times. I think unfortunately it is time for Kidney to move on and for us to look to either Conor O'Shea or potentially an overseas coach.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Great post. Agree with most, if not all. I'd be far from certain we'll address the issues by merely having Kidney move on however. I think we have allowed the provincial trams overtake the national one and not just in terms of what it means in a visceral way to fans (players too?), but les prosaically: in terms of the coaching personnel.

                            Unless Kidney et al's replacements are CLEARLY perceived by the players to be the best coaching group on the island and a step up from their day-in, day-out provincial coaches, I do not think we will get this sorted out. I think we're in danger of faffing about on the fringes. They also need to be fulltime, not seconded from provinces a la Axel.

                            We're fudging it.

                            We get what we deserve.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I can now see why twitter has a post length limit
                              My computer thinks I'm gay
                              What's the difference anyway
                              When all the people do all day
                              Is stare into a phone

                              Comment

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