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Captain Healsip's Inexperience- time to climb the learning curve

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    Captain Healsip's Inexperience- time to climb the learning curve

    Heaslip showed on Sunday that he is still as yet a very inexperienced captain. He was far too much like an alterboy on Sunday. You can bet he has been made aware of this and will know to rectify it in the future, if not the coaches are not doing (some of) their job. Its not that he has to try to become a Johnno/Dayglo/Paulie dark knight figure over night, better IMHO if he modelled himself on the way the English captain managed the ref and communicated with him. This style would appear to me to suit Heaslips personality more and Ireland's cause a good bit better.

    I noticed the following areas in the game v England where Heaslip should have been in the refs ear far more:
    1. Rucking (England players not rolling away & lazy runners),
    2. Mauling (deliberate & cynical fouling - instant yellow card under the laws actually)
    3. Fouling of the jumper in the air in the lineout (POM was fouled a few times, leading to one knock on by CM & several disrupted 'half won' lineouts),
    4. Fouling of scrum half at ruck time (a straight peno, very surprised how docile ireland were on this)
    and
    5. Fringe & rush defence going offside

    Of course to be fair to Heaslip this is not exclusively a captains role, the Irish pack & half backs in general will need to improve tactfully being able to raise refs awareness when they are being (persistently) fouled. It would be a great start if the captain led the way here as he should. He will I'm sure, I just wish he'd cop on a bit faster!!

    p.s. who's to say that if he and others had been more vocal that the ref would not have acted more vigourously on English indiscipline and fouling and perhaps Healy would not have let his inner demon get the better of him!?
    Last edited by Daithi; 13th-February-2013, 19:38.
    ____________________________________________
    Munster were great when they were Munster.

    alas they are just north munster now.......
    ____________________________________________

    #2
    Firstly this post is muck, secondly can you at least try to keep it to one thread?
    My computer thinks I'm gay
    What's the difference anyway
    When all the people do all day
    Is stare into a phone

    Comment


      #3
      I don't disagree with this line of thought, I just don't see it within Heaslip's character to be that kind of leader or enforcer. He's quite a relaxed guy and a nice guy,I don't think he has the cynical edge needed for the role and don't think he'll grow into it.

      Originally posted by sewa View Post
      Firstly this post is muck, secondly can you at least try to keep it to one thread?
      Do you ever say anything constructive about anything?
      Last edited by Dowlinz; 13th-February-2013, 22:49.

      Comment


        #4
        This thread is absolutely bonkers, Cuckoo's Nest crazy. I personally think Jamie should focus on his issues fielding high balls. He knocked on two last day out. Wet I know but my Irish childhood involved more wet games than dry. Once Jamie has nailed down his catching I should think he would turn his attention to regaining his former dynamism and rediscovering his line breaking ability (2 tries against Clermont a few years ago anyone?) Maybe after that his conversations with referees can become an important thing to discuss.

        Just out of interest, how is it that you heard all Heaslip said to the ref during the game Daithi?

        Comment


          #5
          I didn't hear any thing Heaslip said to the referee, cos he said sweet f a. At each penalty Ireland conceded or more particularly for each English offence Heaslip was as quiet as a mouse. It may have been that he played so poorly himself that he was so sheepish assisting the ref with his interpretation. But he's gonna have to get over himself, fact is Ireland were fouled left, right & centre on Sunday by a spoiling English team and through his lack of reaction he let the English captain set the mood music for the ref in Ireland's back yard.

          Do you, think PO'C would have let the ref off so lightly???


          p.s. sewa you is a loser!!
          ____________________________________________
          Munster were great when they were Munster.

          alas they are just north munster now.......
          ____________________________________________

          Comment


            #6
            Who gives a crap what heaslip says,POC ranting at refs got him in more trouble than anything else.

            It amazes me how 1 player can be blamed for 21/22 players playing crap.
            This harks back to the blame ROG/DK for everything leinster brigade.
            Most people dont expect much from Heaslip because a blind man could see he isnt half the player he was 4 years ago.
            No disrespect to the man,im sure he tries his best and doesnt want to lose,

            Ireland were outplayed in every facet of the game,Heaslip talking to ref wont change the result.
            clowns

            Comment


              #7
              Barleys,

              with all due respect i disagree with you. Ireland were not outplayed in every facet of the game as you maintain. Ireland were better at lineout, maul and ruck time they also ran better and created a good few more clean line breaks. However they were also out fouled in every facet of play by the savy cynical English team & it was this and Ireland's own silly errors that cost them the game IMHO.

              Whatever about Heaslip's contribution as a player, his contribution as a, captain needs to be a lot more consistent and in particular his ref management needs to improve if Ireland are to excel under his stewardship.
              ____________________________________________
              Munster were great when they were Munster.

              alas they are just north munster now.......
              ____________________________________________

              Comment


                #8
                Kinda reminded me of what Ulster did in TP in the 1/4 final. Ireland could still be running into England under floodlights right now and I don't think they've have broken down the defence and scored.

                Heaslip was a bit part player in a loss that's a million miles from his fault and his fault alone. They simply ran out of steam and ideas, although they looked like an Aussie team trying to attack in that rain and not having a fiddlers how to keep the ball in hand.

                We were toe to toe for 60 mins, but the impact of Cardiff and that 60 mins in Dublin meant that they couldn't kick on in the final 20. Choosing the posts was the right call in my book, scoreboard ticking and giving the lungs a break before the final push.
                I am the million man.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Daithi View Post
                  Barleys,

                  with all due respect i disagree with you. Ireland were not outplayed in every facet of the game as you maintain. Ireland were better at lineout, maul and ruck time they also ran better and created a good few more clean line breaks. However they were also out fouled in every facet of play by the savy cynical English team & it was this and Ireland's own silly errors that cost them the game IMHO.

                  Whatever about Heaslip's contribution as a player, his contribution as a, captain needs to be a lot more consistent and in particular his ref management needs to improve if Ireland are to excel under his stewardship.
                  Our backrow were played off the park at rucktime.

                  Robshaw was MOM. There was a reason for that. Lions captaincy off one game.
                  I always knew Madigan was a closet Scrum Half. Ignore All things that suggest Continuity.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by The Outlaw View Post
                    Our backrow were played off the park at rucktime.

                    Robshaw was MOM. There was a reason for that. Lions captaincy off one game.
                    Englands kicking game was the difference. Swap the main kickers Farrell, Goode and Brown for Earls, Kearney and ROG and Ireland would have won.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      IIRC Paulie first few games as captain at international and provincial level weren't stellar affairs. This is also forgetting his tempestuous relationship with the lovechild of Inspector Clouseau/French septic tank.
                      The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves

                      Comment


                        #12
                        He had a good lions tour,thats the form i was talking about 4 years ago,but you are right he has been flaky at the best of times.

                        What are the options for Ireland?
                        Coughlan,SOB ?
                        I lost interest in Ireland a few years ago.I see the 6 nations as a sideshow to the H/C to be honest.
                        clowns

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by barleys
                          It amazes me how 1 player can be blamed for 21/22 players playing crap.
                          This harks back to the blame ROG/DK for everything leinster brigade.
                          Most people dont expect much from Heaslip because a blind man could see he isnt half the player he was 4 years ago.
                          No disrespect to the man,im sure he tries his best and doesnt want to
                          .
                          Tis gas, I try to constructively criticise Heaslip's captaincy style (mostly inexperience) & some people maintain I'm trying to blame the loss on just him!! Nothing could be further from the truth in fact. But his captaincy needs to improve and in particular his advocacy with the ref on behalf of his own team mates and against any shenanigans that the opposition might be getting away with.


                          p.s.Outlaw, it may be your opinion that the Irish backrow were completely outplayed but that is not necessarily a fact and is not my opinion. I actually thought Ireland's back row played well overall, POM & & Sob in particular, they won several marginal ruck balls and effected several turnovers as well as making some great line break s and distance in traffic at times. now as pointed out by dropkick above, the Irish kicking game was a completely different story.... a shambles versus a very slick English kicking game...
                          Last edited by Daithi; 14th-February-2013, 10:01.
                          ____________________________________________
                          Munster were great when they were Munster.

                          alas they are just north munster now.......
                          ____________________________________________

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by tickettout
                            The idea that he was a better player 4 years ago is also wide of the mark.

                            I remember the day when the All Blacks came to Dublin in 08, Houdini was playing at 8 and didn't make 1 carry in the game. We've got a captain who openly admits to watching very little rugby outside of the games he plays in, strolls about in the warm-up listening to Snoop Dog and has to take his tongue piercing out before he enters the battle field!

                            He's been the worst performing player in the Irish team for over 2 years now, stretching back well before the world cup. Goes AWOL way too frequently imo.
                            The problem is your opinions included having O'Driscoll replaced by Cave nearly 3 years ago as he was "finished". Credibility? I think not.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by barleys chinos View Post
                              He had a good lions tour,thats the form i was talking about 4 years ago,but you are right he has been flaky at the best of times.

                              What are the options for Ireland?
                              Coughlan,SOB ?
                              I lost interest in Ireland a few years ago.I see the 6 nations as a sideshow to the H/C to be honest.


                              IMO Chris Henry without doubt has been the form Irish back-row player of the season and it shows at Ulster, more than capable of starting for Irl, SOB and POM had great games v Wales but a lot more on their plate v Eng.

                              Whatever combination of CH/POM/SOB Kidney wants to come up with is fine by me but JH needs a kick in the rear-end and the capaincy should not come into it, nobody is entitled.

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