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'English' rugby player forced to return home

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  • i_like_cake
    replied
    Nothing to see......

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  • taz
    replied
    http://www.rugbyweek.com/news/articl...s+Headlines%29

    Former England flanker Hendre Fourie has been told by UK immigration officials that he does not have to leave England and return to South Africa.
    Fourie's contract with Sale Sharks was terminated last week after he retired from playing which meant that his UK Visa was no longer valid.
    The South African born flanker had qualified to play for England and done so eight times but as he had only lived in England for eight years he had not qualified for residency.
    UK Border Officials contacted Fourie on Tuesday after he announced that he would be returning to South Africa to be with family and that he thought his Visa has been terminated.
    The agency told him that they had not started processing his case yet and that they were able to discuss options that would enable him to remain in the UK.
    "We have not curtailed Mr Fourie's visa at this time and he is not required to leave the UK," a UK Border Agency spokesman told the Telegraph.
    "His employment contract with Sale Rugby Club has been terminated and his employer has rightly informed UKBA of this decision. We are considering what action to take next. "
    "If an individual's circumstances change and they no longer meet the terms of their specific visa they can apply for a visa of a different type.
    "Mr Fourie has been informed of the process and the various options available to him. It is entirely up to him if he chooses to explore any of them further."
    Fourie was born Burgersdorp in South Africa moved to England eight years ago and was living in the UK on a "sports people visa" that was due to expire in June.
    He qualified for England under IRB rules on residency grounds after joining Rotherham in 2005 and then playing Premiership rugby for Leeds.

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  • LeakyBoots
    replied
    'English' rugby player forced to return home

    Apparently he's allowed stay now

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  • lahinch_lass
    replied
    There's a bit of a mix in regulations across sports & various countries ... I got into an exchange on twitter with one of Brian Moore's followers yesterday about the "irish question" in particular.

    the IRB wants to grow the sport in "lesser" nations and came up with the 3-yr residency rule as a means to do it. I believe the original intent was for nations like Japan & Italy to be enabled to build their international teams up using ex-pats, but it has since been roundly abused by the top tier nations.

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  • fitzy73
    replied
    Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
    I'm not sure they did. He'd have qualified to stay at the end of his current contract, so presumably that was the plan.
    As I understand it, he would have initially been on the old "work permit" visa, and it was pretty much a fait accompli to get indefinite leave to remain on those.

    I think that he let that lapse, didn't apply for indefinate leave to remain, and then switched to the points based visa, where he would have been a Tier 2 applicant (after 2008). Leave to remain on these was / is harder to get, especially since Tories came to power.

    That's my understanding of it, based on picking my Mrs F brain (she has tabs on this for work purposes).

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  • the plastic paddy
    replied
    Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
    I'd disagree. The big schools are doing that for their own benefit, and the clubs are grabbing them. The clubs couldn't give two ****s about strengthening the England pool. In fact, they'd prefer if England didn't take their players at all. "The English" don't really exist all that cohesively when we're talking about this sort of issue.

    The IRFU, on the other hand make special provision that if a player has an intent, three years out, to qualify for Ireland he'll be counted differently in terms of NIQ quotas.

    I think we're way out ahead of them with this.
    To be honest that is not what I am hearing coming out of Millfield, but I accept what you are saying in relation to the English clubs being more self interested. That said I do find the project player thing leaves a slightly unpleasant taste in the mouth!!

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  • Balla Boy
    replied
    Originally posted by mtcmolloy View Post
    to me, it's a move that may have been done by those who, like me, are opposed to the
    project player idea. In this way, I see it as a positive move to have a look at changing
    the rules.

    And yes, of course it has to be asked where his attempts to gain citizenship have faltered.
    All credit to putting food on the table etc, but if you play for your country, I still say
    you should be a blahdy native or citizen. This should be an obvious display of loyalty.
    I'm not sure they did. He'd have qualified to stay at the end of his current contract, so presumably that was the plan.

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  • Balla Boy
    replied
    Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post
    But the English are using their public school system to 'qualify' foreign youngsters like Vunipolo, the Sarries LHP. A lot of these institutions are offering scholarships to these foreign kids. I didn't think Strauss was actively sought by the IRFU/ Leinster, I thought he wanted to emigrate from South Africa.

    But I appreciate the sentiment of your post that no country is anywhere near the moral high ground on this issue. My question always, when it comes to really putting the neck on the line for your country, is whether it is better to have a native or someone with more tenuous roots? It is in no way black and white (Quinnie wrote an excellent piece on it during the AIs. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...325938290.html) but I think Ireland are a better team for being more Irish although obviously I think members of the Irish diaspora can have a very strong emotional attachment to Ireland even though they were not born there, but lets not get fixated on that topic again.
    I'd disagree. The big schools are doing that for their own benefit, and the clubs are grabbing them. The clubs couldn't give two ****s about strengthening the England pool. In fact, they'd prefer if England didn't take their players at all. "The English" don't really exist all that cohesively when we're talking about this sort of issue.

    The IRFU, on the other hand make special provision that if a player has an intent, three years out, to qualify for Ireland he'll be counted differently in terms of NIQ quotas.

    I think we're way out ahead of them with this.

    Leave a comment:


  • mtcmolloy
    replied
    to me, it's a move that may have been done by those who, like me, are opposed to the
    project player idea. In this way, I see it as a positive move to have a look at changing
    the rules.

    And yes, of course it has to be asked where his attempts to gain citizenship have faltered.
    All credit to putting food on the table etc, but if you play for your country, I still say
    you should be a blahdy native or citizen. This should be an obvious display of loyalty.

    Leave a comment:


  • Old Dog
    replied
    Originally posted by 5eight View Post

    Typically SH players not good enought to pay for the country of their birth suddenly discover an English/Scottish/Welsh/Irish grandparent and declare for that country without ever identifying with that country on an emotional basis.

    The worst is/are the IRFU.
    Cricket Ireland? Normally includes more SH players than the full Saracens squad!

    UAE/Dubai? (represented at the ICC cricket Tournament in 1994 by 10 Sri Lankans, Indians and Pakistanis and captained by the cricket-mad Sultan Zarawani) In fairness to Zarawani, he once bowled Tendulkar out - and was KO'd by Allan Donald when he refused to wear a batting helmet - bad mistake!

    Leave a comment:


  • the plastic paddy
    replied
    Originally posted by 5eight View Post
    The problem as I see it is one of rugby tourism. Typically SH players not good enought to pay for the country of their birth suddenly discover an English/Scottish/Welsh/Irish grandparent and declare for that country without ever identifying with that country on an emotional basis.

    The worst are the IRFU. They actively sought Strauss and Stander and signed them to potentially play for Ireland at a future date. Strauss may know the words to and sing the national anthem, but he is not an Irishman. None of this is against IRB rules.

    At least Barrit and co.in England arrived to play club rugby and "qualified" for England through the residency rule. They are not Englishmen
    But the English are using their public school system to 'qualify' foreign youngsters like Vunipolo, the Sarries LHP. A lot of these institutions are offering scholarships to these foreign kids. I didn't think Strauss was actively sought by the IRFU/ Leinster, I thought he wanted to emigrate from South Africa.

    But I appreciate the sentiment of your post that no country is anywhere near the moral high ground on this issue. My question always, when it comes to really putting the neck on the line for your country, is whether it is better to have a native or someone with more tenuous roots? It is in no way black and white (Quinnie wrote an excellent piece on it during the AIs. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...325938290.html) but I think Ireland are a better team for being more Irish although obviously I think members of the Irish diaspora can have a very strong emotional attachment to Ireland even though they were not born there, but lets not get fixated on that topic again.
    Last edited by the plastic paddy; 8-January-2013, 10:23.

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  • 5eight
    replied
    Bent is as much Irish as I am Kiwi. He may hold a passport and tick all the boxes, that does not mean he should be picked for Ireland, IMO. As of yet he has not justified his selection not to mind his fast tracking.

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  • fitzy73
    replied
    Re: 'English' rugby player forced to return home

    Originally posted by 5eight View Post
    The problem as I see it is one of rugby tourism. Typically SH players not good enought to pay for the country of their birth suddenly discover an English/Scottish/Welsh/Irish grandparent and declare for that country without ever identifying with that country on an emotional basis.

    The worst are the IRFU. They actively sought Strauss and Stander and signed them to potentially play for Ireland at a future date. Strauss may know the words to and sing the national anthem, but he is not an Irishman. None of this is against IRB rules.

    At least Barrit and co.in England arrived to play club rugby and "qualified" for England through the residency rule. They are not Englishmen
    How much better or worse is that than Bent though?

    Leave a comment:


  • Balla Boy
    replied
    'English' rugby player forced to return home

    Originally posted by Piquet View Post
    I'm open to correction but isn't one a "subject of Her Majesty" with associated privileges rather than a "Citizen of the UK" with associated rights.
    Not any more. There are still some obscure categories of "Subject", including Irish ones, but UK Citizens are pretty much the same as any other.

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  • Piquet
    replied
    Originally posted by Cianostays View Post
    I presume it's to do with the fact that you don't become a citizen of England as such but become a citizen of the UK.
    I'm open to correction but isn't one a "subject of Her Majesty" with associated privileges rather than a "Citizen of the UK" with associated rights.

    EDIT: it would appear from here that the last statement is incorrect. There are six forms of "British Nationality"

    Last edited by Piquet; 8-January-2013, 08:40.

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