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    Optimistic?

    Seeing England beat the ABs was a satisfying experience for some reason. As an Irish fan, I generally like seeing England lose. I know its a bit cliche, but there you go. We see the likes of Australia and South Africa getting the occasional win against them along with England and France. These wins are always encouraging because it serves as a reminder that Newzealand can be beaten, and its that one box Ireland havent ticked.

    Its particularly encouraging to watch NH teams beat them because it puts it into perspective for me; we could beat New Zealand. Im positive we could. Are we going to fear England who beat them 38-20, come the 6 nations? Hell no... they will be respected, but you can bet the Irish team will go out expecting a win.

    I try to remain hugely optimistic when it comes to Ireland and Munster. I was delighted to see Penney brought in to coach Munster and i think we re gradually going in the right direction. But something still isnt right.

    We re still seeing the likes of O'Gara and D' Arcy, being selected despite playing poorly.And this time around I dont think that the " no other options are available'' excuse can be used. Players are still being shuffled around to make way for big name players, some who just arent performing. Jackson played well against Fiji, and has been playing well for Ulster, but wasnt included on the bench for Argentina. Has Luke Marshall not done enough to get selected ahead of D' Arcy? Sexton is clearly the best option for Irelands out half, why does he keep getting substituted when playing well, for the under performing O Gara? Keatley has been f**ked over by the IRFU this season and I hope he keeps his chin up and keeps playing the way he has been for Munster because he is clearly a talented player. I certainly hope JJ Hanrahan gets more game time and proves to be a star for Munster. McFadden is a good inside centre. Why does the Irish coaching team keep playing him on the wing?

    To be honest I could go on but I wont. I think its fair to say that our selection policy has been problematic for a long time, and its hugely frustrating because, even with such a small player pool to select from, we have alot of highly regarded players within the Heineken cup and 6 nations. Should we be optimistic about the on coming 6 nations? I want to be, but im starting to feel like an abused house wife right now...

    #2
    Darcy has been playing well in most games and has done some excellent work. His just not done it for a full 80 minutes.
    In fairness to Darcy you wouldn't but him in the same boat as O'Gara. O'Gara was poor yesterday and hasn't has the gametime to get himself into any type of form. Williams did some covering for him yesterday.
    Luke Marshall had one good half against a poor Fiji side , he needs to get playing well with ulster. McFadden in my opinion is a 12 but is getting gametime anywhere but there.
    We have never beaten New Zealand but in fairness England have.
    When their numbers dwindled from 50 to 8, the other dwarves began to suspect Hungry

    Comment


      #3
      O'Gara has been poor this season. Not just yesterday. Hes been handed alot of game time to get himself up to speed, and been selected for autumn international games despite proving comprehensively that he is not good enough, ahead of younger better players( of who desperately needed game time) Jackson and Keatley need to be involved in the 6 nations. O'Gara has had a great career, but now his time at the top is hindering other players development.

      Comment


        #4
        I'd put ROG and Darcy in the same boat, i'd make Heaslip the captain and send them all off to sea
        My computer thinks I'm gay
        What's the difference anyway
        When all the people do all day
        Is stare into a phone

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by etcpostmaster View Post
          Seeing England beat the ABs was a satisfying experience for some reason. As an Irish fan, I generally like seeing England lose. I know its a bit cliche, but there you go. We see the likes of Australia and South Africa getting the occasional win against them along with England and France. These wins are always encouraging because it serves as a reminder that Newzealand can be beaten, and its that one box Ireland havent ticked.

          Its particularly encouraging to watch NH teams beat them because it puts it into perspective for me; we could beat New Zealand. Im positive we could. Are we going to fear England who beat them 38-20, come the 6 nations? Hell no... they will be respected, but you can bet the Irish team will go out expecting a win.

          I try to remain hugely optimistic when it comes to Ireland and Munster. I was delighted to see Penney brought in to coach Munster and i think we re gradually going in the right direction. But something still isnt right.

          We re still seeing the likes of O'Gara and D' Arcy, being selected despite playing poorly.And this time around I dont think that the " no other options are available'' excuse can be used. Players are still being shuffled around to make way for big name players, some who just arent performing. Jackson played well against Fiji, and has been playing well for Ulster, but wasnt included on the bench for Argentina. Has Luke Marshall not done enough to get selected ahead of D' Arcy? Sexton is clearly the best option for Irelands out half, why does he keep getting substituted when playing well, for the under performing O Gara? Keatley has been f**ked over by the IRFU this season and I hope he keeps his chin up and keeps playing the way he has been for Munster because he is clearly a talented player. I certainly hope JJ Hanrahan gets more game time and proves to be a star for Munster. McFadden is a good inside centre. Why does the Irish coaching team keep playing him on the wing?

          To be honest I could go on but I wont. I think its fair to say that our selection policy has been problematic for a long time, and its hugely frustrating because, even with such a small player pool to select from, we have alot of highly regarded players within the Heineken cup and 6 nations. Should we be optimistic about the on coming 6 nations? I want to be, but im starting to feel like an abused house wife right now...
          Keatley hasn't been screwed by anybody in terms of selection. He hasn't played well enough when given the chance for Munster. Llanelli being a prime example. Jackson is a long way ahead of him.

          Maybe you should ask Schimdt why he will pick all of Goodman, O Malley, Darcy and Macken ahead of Mc Fadden in the centre?

          Luke Marshall has his chance today for Ulster. It's up to him to take it.
          I always knew Madigan was a closet Scrum Half. Ignore All things that suggest Continuity.

          Comment


            #6
            People will say we'll miss the 'golden generation' when they've gone. However I wonder about that. Sure we won't see a talent in green the like of BO'D perhaps again in my lifetime. However this 'golden generation' has an awful lot of baggage. Bar one season, a history of underperformance, the sight of a blue jersey in Paris turning grown men to boys, the sight of the black and fern, turning them into little girls. A similar phobe being developped now about the red jersey. Thank god for the perfidious Albion as they have often provided the one reason for cheer in otherwise unfulfilling seasons. God bless them!

            My fervent hope is that although the new generation coming through probably won't have a BO'D, we'll have a more uniform and overall higher level of quality throughout the team and much more depth. Of course we need a coach (INTL team but also in provinces) who will develop depth. The central contracting must be reviewed and used more sparingly for those players who really are irreplaceable.

            Given the quality shown by France & England in the AI's, we are significantly behind them in terms of bringing through the quality needed to be genuine contendors in the 6n's. Unfortunately Kidney is on his last life and it's pretty much knock-out rugby for him in this 6n's. One loss and it's game over which will probably mean a cautious approach and his sucessor will have to start from scratch to rebuild the side.

            In response to the question: Optimistic about this 6n's? - no not overly so.
            Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again (like picking Gordon D'Arcy) and expecting different results.
            Albert Einstein

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Mcork View Post
              People will say we'll miss the 'golden generation' when they've gone. However I wonder about that. Sure we won't see a talent in green the like of BO'D perhaps again in my lifetime. However this 'golden generation' has an awful lot of baggage. Bar one season, a history of underperformance, the sight of a blue jersey in Paris turning grown men to boys, the sight of the black and fern, turning them into little girls. A similar phobe being developped now about the red jersey. Thank god for the perfidious Albion as they have often provided the one reason for cheer in otherwise unfulfilling seasons. God bless them!

              My fervent hope is that although the new generation coming through probably won't have a BO'D, we'll have a more uniform and overall higher level of quality throughout the team and much more depth. Of course we need a coach (INTL team but also in provinces) who will develop depth. The central contracting must be reviewed and used more sparingly for those players who really are irreplaceable.

              Given the quality shown by France & England in the AI's, we are significantly behind them in terms of bringing through the quality needed to be genuine contendors in the 6n's. Unfortunately Kidney is on his last life and it's pretty much knock-out rugby for him in this 6n's. One loss and it's game over which will probably mean a cautious approach and his sucessor will have to start from scratch to rebuild the side.

              In response to the question: Optimistic about this 6n's? - no not overly so.

              I dont agree on that. Every team needs a few outstanding talents' . NZ dont look half as fearsome when Carter and Mc Caw aren't there. We'll need at least 3-4 outstanding world class talents to come out of our current crop of younger players. In many the golden generation at least raised the bar a bit higher so that the younger crew coming in now can look at moving things to a higher level.

              Things evolve. I think we've a reasonable chance in the 6 Nations if everyone is fit. We will never have the depth of England, France and the SH becasue we don't have the numbers. But when we've evreyone fit we can compete with the best.
              I always knew Madigan was a closet Scrum Half. Ignore All things that suggest Continuity.

              Comment


                #8
                I think our problem with BOD is matched by the story of his dad having to be shut up early in his career for berating the rest of the side for not just giving it to his son. That became Irish policy, including BOD's own tactic when the team was struggling, just give him the ball and he'll sort it out. But more often than not in the big games it didn't sort out. We relied far too much on one player, to the detriment possibly of in the early 2000s having an amazing back line available to us. As BOD's powers have reduced we simply haven't been willing to see it. For me he should have been moved to IC several seasons ago and become what he was, a guy who didn't have the outright gas any more but had the experience, skills, strength and nous to have controlled a game. His physicality is no less than d'Arcy but his passing and kicking is far superior. NZ are already working on replacing McCaw, we're nowhere near replacing BOD, not because of options but because we don't know how to do it. We're still too reliant on him and POC. Although it was interesting to see a very young side go out and thrash Argentina without either, potentially freed of the shackles of the oh my God they're out we'll lose generation?

                Yes we can compete with the best, but only on our best day against one of their worst. I still believe the problem is mental. Our players aren't challenged enough for their places to be pushed to have to perform every game. Players like Heaslip and DOC cruised through too many internationals but wouldn't have been allowed to do that by a good country. We're not tough enough and personally I wonder if that's because we're not tough enough in the selection stakes.
                \"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Evil Omer View Post
                  I think our problem with BOD is matched by the story of his dad having to be shut up early in his career for berating the rest of the side for not just giving it to his son. That became Irish policy, including BOD's own tactic when the team was struggling, just give him the ball and he'll sort it out. But more often than not in the big games it didn't sort out. We relied far too much on one player, to the detriment possibly of in the early 2000s having an amazing back line available to us. As BOD's powers have reduced we simply haven't been willing to see it. For me he should have been moved to IC several seasons ago and become what he was, a guy who didn't have the outright gas any more but had the experience, skills, strength and nous to have controlled a game. His physicality is no less than d'Arcy but his passing and kicking is far superior. NZ are already working on replacing McCaw, we're nowhere near replacing BOD, not because of options but because we don't know how to do it. We're still too reliant on him and POC. Although it was interesting to see a very young side go out and thrash Argentina without either, potentially freed of the shackles of the oh my God they're out we'll lose generation?

                  Yes we can compete with the best, but only on our best day against one of their worst. I still believe the problem is mental. Our players aren't challenged enough for their places to be pushed to have to perform every game. Players like Heaslip and DOC cruised through too many internationals but wouldn't have been allowed to do that by a good country. We're not tough enough and personally I wonder if that's because we're not tough enough in the selection stakes.

                  We struggle defensively in the 13 channel when he isn't there. Wales in the Aviva last year is a case study. No way George North bounces BOD out of the way.

                  Its debatable how many line breaks are made at 13 anymore. It's all traffic in midfield now except off set piece ball.

                  For me passing skills are more important and he's exemplary in that regard.

                  I
                  I always knew Madigan was a closet Scrum Half. Ignore All things that suggest Continuity.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Reasonably optimistic but France are untouchable at the mo, we could really do with POC and a fit Ferris back for that to have any chance IMHO.

                    As for missing Bod ,Poc, Ferris, Rog & Wally at their best, as the song goes 'you don't know what you got till its gone....'
                    Ireland were equally as consistent as France in 6 Ns over 10 year s from 2000-2010, to say they had one good season is just trite, they were consistently excellent, several times being one game off a slam and championship, such as 01, 03, 06, etc as well a winning one in 09, that is their real legacy Imho...
                    ____________________________________________
                    Munster were great when they were Munster.

                    alas they are just north munster now.......
                    ____________________________________________

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Yep.
                      I had a pina coloda or three with Uncle Deccie last night.
                      I reckon we'll win in Cardiff in another photo finish. We'll ultimately fail in our bid for a second Grand Chelem under Deccie, falling to the French again in the Averva.
                      However, I'm well nigh certain that we'll win the 2015 RWC final in Twickers with The Earl of Thomond slaloming through the Blick midfield onto a short ball from JJ, at the death.
                      He'll be wearing 13 on his back.
                      Paulie will come off the bench to convert the try, neccessarily, his last act in the green jersey of Ireland.

                      I'm not overly optimistic of us dominating world rugby thereafter as, true to form, we'll overindulge ourselves in celebration.
                      Last edited by ustix; 3rd-December-2012, 12:47.
                      Gwan Joe!!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by The Outlaw View Post
                        We struggle defensively in the 13 channel when he isn't there. Wales in the Aviva last year is a case study. No way George North bounces BOD out of the way.

                        Its debatable how many line breaks are made at 13 anymore. It's all traffic in midfield now except off set piece ball.

                        For me passing skills are more important and he's exemplary in that regard.

                        I
                        can't agree on that, remember his pass to the 10foot tall McFadden? Or the constant offloads into the hands of opposition in the 60-0 manshaming? His recent game hasn't been great at OC. My question on the defence, raised many times, is are we suffering there because he's actually covering for others or because the threat never gets to him because for several years we've had 2 of the weakest defending OH/ICs in the game?
                        \"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Evil Omer View Post
                          can't agree on that, remember his pass to the 10foot tall McFadden? Or the constant offloads into the hands of opposition in the 60-0 manshaming? His recent game hasn't been great at OC. My question on the defence, raised many times, is are we suffering there because he's actually covering for others or because the threat never gets to him because for several years we've had 2 of the weakest defending OH/ICs in the game?

                          Honestly I don't think you're objective in relation to him.

                          Gatland has name-dropped him already for captain for the Lions. He wouldn't do that if he was playing as badly as you say.

                          Teams have opened us up when he isn't there. I still maintain that.

                          I will also maintain he's played some outstanding rugby for leinster this year based on what I've viewed. You're free to disagree with that.

                          Everyone was ****e in the 60-nil defeat. Thats the reality
                          I always knew Madigan was a closet Scrum Half. Ignore All things that suggest Continuity.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by The Outlaw View Post

                            Gatland has name-dropped him already for captain for the Lions. He wouldn't do that if he was playing as badly as you say.
                            Does that mean Heaslip is playing well now too?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by The Outlaw View Post
                              Honestly I don't think you're objective in relation to him.

                              Gatland has name-dropped him already for captain for the Lions. He wouldn't do that if he was playing as badly as you say.

                              Teams have opened us up when he isn't there. I still maintain that.

                              I will also maintain he's played some outstanding rugby for leinster this year based on what I've viewed. You're free to disagree with that.

                              Everyone was ****e in the 60-nil defeat. Thats the reality

                              O'Driscoll has never been great at passing. I don't think this is news to anyone. It's the many other aspects of his game that have made him a great player.

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